500.A15A4 General Committee/623
Memorandum of Trans-Atlantic Telephone Conversation54
Mr. Davis: You know I am over here trying to disarm. I thought I had better talk to you on the situation. As you know, the Italians have failed in their efforts to alleviate the situation. [They?] would like for us to go ahead along the line we have been talking. The British and I felt that that was not the thing to do, but the British have come back today; for instance, Eden was talking with Simon and Simon suggested that the British and French should now get together and decide what to do. I told Eden that I did not think that that was the way to proceed; that we must still make every effort to negotiate an agreement and not to try to impose one, because if we did, the Germans would probably take it in the wrong humor and it would have much more effect if they agreed to it voluntarily. It is all a question of whether they want an agreement or not. Today, the indications are that they want it. Without changing the position which we have taken or offering a general plan in any substantial way, we could try to make it more palatable for the Germans and also make it more difficult for them to reject it. There is a limit, you see, to what the French Government can agree to and not be overthrown. I told Eden I thought the best thing would be for them to get together on this to work it out and for us in effect to do what the Italians tried to do. I said that is all right, but we had better first talk this over with the French. We thought of saying, instead of a four year trial period, which the Germans resent very much and which they do not like—it has got down now to the point where when you speak to the Germans of a trial or test period, they say that is an insult to them. They say, “We have been waiting fourteen years for the Allies to show good faith and disarm and now they want four more years to test our (the Germans’) good faith.” I think if we just cut out anything like a trial period and the Germans will agree to stop talking about specimen weapons and rearmament, we can word that proposal in such a way that we can put—
President: Would the French go along with the elimination of any trial period?
[Page 246]Davis: Yes, they will. We think they will to this effect. We will talk about a …55 treaty, and not talk about a trial period. The trial period will exist in reality but not in name. We will actually start to destroy existing weapons at the end of four years. What we think we may do, that is, something we have been talking over and are going over more in detail with the British and French in the morning, is this:—The Germans rather complain that there is no disarmament whatever for four years. We think if they could get some disarmament, it would not be a risk at all. At the end of three years guns of 400 millimeters could be discarded. The guns are practically obsolete anyhow.
President: That is a start.
Mr. Davis: At the end of four years we will get down to 320; at the end of six, 220 millimeters, and the eighth year get down to 155 millimeter guns.
President: That is good sense.
Mr. Davis: If the Germans want an agreement, we can get it now. If they do not want it, we want to put this in such a way that they will find it difficult to reject it. I do not think it is necessary to write in that we have got to talk about German good faith or disarmament. That would actually take place on condition that there is not any grave violation by any power.
President: But it does set up continuous inspection?
Mr. Davis: Absolutely.
President: That is all right.
Mr. Davis: What France would like to do is to give her people the impression that the United States and England are with them in telling Germany what she has got to do and I thought it was wise to avoid putting us in that position.
President: Of course we do not want to have them blame it on us. I think that is all right.
Mr. Davis: Nadolny came to see me last night and had a long talk with me. He said to me finally, “We want an agreement and you can do more than anybody can on this, because we all trust the United States. You are in a unique position. We can accept things that you propose that we cannot accept from anybody else.”
President: I think that is very good.
Mr. Davis: But you do agree with me that we should try to avoid any united front?
President: Yes. But at the same time, we must not be in a position of breaking up the solidarity.
Mr. Daves: Not at all.
[Page 247]President: Because Germany, from all we get here, is very anxious to break up the solidarity.
Mr. Davis: She is doing everything possible, but we are not going to break up the solidarity at all. The position I have taken with the Germans right along is this:—We cannot get disarmament if you are going to try to rearm and with all these people in Germany preaching the cause of war. It increases the suspicions that exist, and our public opinion today will not support any rearmament. They will not stand for it. We are not going into any disarmament agreement that is really a rearmament agreement. They can get a measure of rearmament anyhow when they transform their Reichswehr. They will get just the additional weapons that are permissible.
President: I think that is very good.
Mr. Davis: The situation of course is quite serious, but I think we are going to get out of it. I had a long talk with Benes today, and for the first time he has ever done it since I have been here, he tells me we can get it and have got to get it; that we cannot wait over two or three weeks.
President: I wish I were there with you. It is awfully interesting and you have a real chance to pull it off.
Mr. Davis: Did Hull see Luther today?
President: I do not know. Cordell is on the phone.
Mr. Davis: How did you get along with Luther?
Secretary: All right. I got along very well. I presented your line of arguments and I think he went away with his state of mind much quieter than it might have been.
Mr. Davis: The Germans are realizing today definitely that they cannot break up the united opinion on this whole thing and we are feeling more hopeful tonight, and that we will be able to work out an agreement pretty soon. The situation is so serious that it might be hopeful. Talk to Luther and let him know just how we stand because they are trying in every way to break it up.
Secretary: All right. We will do that very thing.
President: Good luck.