370. Minutes of a Domestic Policy Council Meeting1
PARTICIPANTS
- The President, The Vice President, Messrs. Hodel, J. Baker, Lyng, Bowen, Pierce, Herrington, H. Baker, Thomas, Whitehead, Taft, Burns, Wright, Woods, Bauer, Cribb, Ms. Risque, Messrs. Bledsoe, Donatelli, Fitzwater, Crippen, Sprinkel, Greene, Gray, Ms. Schafer, Messrs. Rona, Smart, Willkie, Ms. Dunlop, Messrs. Galebach, Kuttner, Ms. Faoro
Stratospheric Ozone
The President asked Secretary Hodel to review the stratospheric ozone issue. Secretary Hodel described negotiations underway for developing an international protocol to protect the stratospheric ozone layer. He said the purpose of the meeting is to permit the President to consider guidance he may wish to give the U.S. delegation. Mr. Thomas presented an overview of problems with depletion of the ozone layer, describing models that have been developed for projecting results of different courses of action. He discussed possible health effects such as increased numbers of skin cancer deaths and cataracts, and other effects on the ecology, agriculture production, and marine life. He outlined the legal and legislative issues involved, and briefly reviewed costs and benefits of various options.
Mr. Thomas described projections from EPA models of a freeze on further emissions of ozone-depleting chemicals by all or some number of countries. He also commented on possible impacts of a reduction of 20%, and an additional 30% reduction from 1986 production levels. Mr. Thomas said that the 1977 Clean Air Act requires him to take action if a reasonable likelihood of damage to the environment from stratospheric ozone depletion is present. He said that in 1978, the U.S. banned aerosols partly out of this concern. EPA is now under a consent decree pending the outcomes of the international negotiations, and Mr. Thomas said Congress and environmental groups will be watching to see if the accord reached is strong enough. He said that EPA supports planned reductions of 50% of 1986 levels over ten years.
Mr. Hodel recapped the ozone depletion problems as described by the various models. Mr. Whitehead said he felt the Council members have agreed on the end results being sought, but that a dispute exists over the means for getting there. He believed the outcome will be a major victory in reducing destruction of the ozone layer, and said the [Page 1063] negotiators should be left free to get the best possible agreement. Mr. Wright said the President’s instructions to the U.S. delegation should be confidential, and treated accordingly. Senator Baker agreed, pointing out that it is important that the President have the benefit of the Council’s thinking, but that the discussion should be tightly held while the negotiations are in progress. Messrs. Hodel and Thomas agreed. Mr. Hodel expressed concerns about limited participation in the international negotiations thus far, and about the shortcomings in the models, which in some cases extend to the year 2165. He felt that as a result of these, we must reach agreement on how to address the overall problems. The President asked how convinced we are about the overall problem. Mr. Thomas described the scientific processes that led to our current understanding of potential effects of ozone depletion, including reference to the “hole” in the ozone layer over the Antarctic.
Mr. Hodel reviewed the negotiating issues and options developed by the Council. He recapped questions about participation and entry into force of a protocol, a grace period for lesser developed countries, a system of voting for decisions, and monitoring, reporting and enforcement of the protocol. Mr. Wright said we should avoid permitting lesser developed countries to use this issue against our industries. The President asked what products we would be eliminating. Mr. Thomas described the chemicals, including chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), that are depleting the ozone layer, and said we would be seeking substitutes that perform the same functions but which do not cause ozone depletion. Mr. Hodel reviewed several issues pertaining to a freeze and future reductions in production of these chemicals. He also described the issue of whether the U.S. should receive credits for its previous actions, such as the banning of aerosols in 1978. Mr. Thomas said the U.S. position had been to seek credits, but because of the directions of world opinion, we have decided to focus on proposing reductions and not to debate who has caused the ozone layer depletion.
Another issue was whether there should be trade provisions in the protocol. Mr. Thomas said restrictions on imports are key to this issue. Mr. Woods felt we should decide trade restrictions on the merits of each case, rather than seek automatic restrictions. Mr. Smart agreed, pointing out that we should seek a flexible response. Discussion ensued about trade problems that might evolve, especially pertaining to development of substitutes. There was general agreement that we should ban imports from countries that do not sign the protocol. Secretary Baker said we must develop competitive substitutes so as to have leverage.
The President asked about producing ozone. Mr. Thomas said there is too much in the lower atmosphere and not enough in the stratosphere. Secretary Lyng said that since the science is not clear, agricultural [Page 1064] scientists think that a freezing of chemicals is okay, but that we should not go too far in agreeing to further reductions. Senator Baker said that while the science is in dispute, there is pressure in Congress for a strong protocol. Mr. Hodel said he hopes we instruct the U.S. delegates to get an agreement that looks good and will work. Mr. Bauer asked about industry reactions. Mr. Hodel said that an alliance of industrial organizations has supported a freeze, and some of the members have supported further reductions. Mr. Whitehead felt that the proposed ten-year reduction period is reasonable.
The President indicated that he would consider the comments of Council members and make his decisions at a later time.
NOTE: Following the meeting, the President communicated his guidance for the U.S. delegation in a classified memorandum to Council members.2
- Source: Reagan Library, Risque Files, Ozone Layer Protection [2]. Confidential. The meeting took place in the Cabinet Room at the White House.↩
- See Document 372.↩