Foreign Relations of the United States, 1977–1980, Volume XX, Eastern Europe

99. Telegram From the Department of State to the Embassy in Czechoslovakia¹

Washington, October 8, 1977, 0111Z

242479. Subject: The Secretary’s Conversation With Czechoslovak Foreign Minister Chnoupek on October 6.

Participants

US Side:

The Secretary

Nicholas G. Andrews (notetaker)

Czechoslovak Side:

Bohuslav Chnoupek, Foreign Minister

Jaromir Johannes, Ambassador to the US

Eduard Kukan, Counselor in Washington

Mr. Suja, Chef de Cabinet to the Foreign Minister

Mr. Kovarik, interpreter

1. Summary: Chnoupek said US-Czechoslovak relations have not moved substantially forward in five years and the main problem is the claims/gold issue. The new views conveyed by Ambassador Byrne are very different from the previous ones and Chnoupek wondered if the Ambassador was speaking officially. The Secretary said we wish to improve relations and cited claims/gold and Czechoslovak treatment of US journalists and the Charter 77 group as matters which have brought about the present situation. He assured Chnoupek that Ambassador Byrne is authorized to try to resolve the claims issue and has the full confidence and support of the USG. He mentioned the visit of the Deputy Minister of Foreign Trade and the Cultural/Scientific Agreement as positive steps and Chnoupek agreed. Chnoupek said he would meet again soon with Ambassador Byrne. He presented the Czechoslovak view on human rights. The Secretary said the US is not approaching the Belgrade Conference in a spirit of confrontation but in order to review seriously the extent of progress achieved and to discuss new initiatives. Chnoupek warned that if the human rights area is singled out for debate, a constructive dialogue would be impossible. He said the Czechoslovak delegation is prepared for a constructive discussion. End summary

2. The Secretary opened by expressing his pleasure at the opportunity to talk of matters of mutual interest and to improve the relationship between our two countries which is the objective we both share.

Chnoupek thanked the Secretary for receiving him and mentioned that he has not had an opportunity for almost three years to have a discussion on bilateral relations at this level. In the Czechoslovak view and, he thought, in the US view, the development of relations is not in keeping with the general trend. Among the Socialist countries, he said, Czechoslovakia has to rank in the last place. In substance, we are in the same place as we were five to six years ago. At that time, the work done with American colleagues did not lead to the desired results. He admitted there have been some positive steps during the most recent period. He had a one and one-half hour talk with Ambassador Byrne on bilateral relations and they went into considerable detail. They evaluated all the positive steps but also said that the main problem remains unresolved, namely the property and financial claims.²

Noting the discussions on claims in the 1960’s Chnoupek mentioned Secretary Rogers’ visit to Czechoslovakia during which it was agreed to resume talks. After hard negotiations, Czechoslovakia believed it had concluded a very reasonable agreement which was roughly in keeping with those the US reached with other Socialist countries. The agreement was initialled but not concluded. Chnoupek said there has hardly been any practical possibility for a political dialogue since then. The last visit to Prague was by an Assistant Secretary (Hartman). Trade was not at all up to the possibilities. Czechoslovak exports according to one joke, is as high as Polish exports of ham. Imports are low. Tariffs for Czechoslovak goods are four times higher. There is no opportunity to obtain credits.

3. Returning to the claims question, Chnoupek said he has seen a large number of official, semi-official and unofficial people who have expressed views on this question. In the last three years, he has almost lost sight of what are official views and what are unofficial views, citing conversations with Congressman Vanik and Senator Jackson. He said that in their recent talk Ambassador Byrne had stated certain new views. He expected that these would represent the official stand of the US Government. But if he understood the Ambassador correctly, he was giving his own reasoning about what a settlement would look like based on his discussions in Washington. Therefore, Chnoupek said he was not clear whether the Ambassador was talking officially or taking soundings. Chnoupek said he also told Ambassador Byrne that the new suggestions differ a great deal from what was agreed in the past. The new ideas represent 50–60 of the principal whereas the previous agreement was about 41. The latter was approximately the percentage agreed upon in settlements with Bulgaria, Hungary and Poland. The only higher percentage seems to be the one with Yugoslavia at 44. Czechoslovakia would be an exception and it would not look well for the government. It would mean a renegotiation, and Chnoupek said he would have to go again to the government and the Parliament to seek approval. He is very afraid that renegotiation would be very difficult, if possible at all. According to his instructions from the government, he has freedom of action in regard to time limits and frequency of payments but not in the total sum. He concluded by saying he would be glad to hear the US official stand and Czechoslovakia is interested in normalizing and developing relations.

4. The Secretary said he will answer the specific question but also say something on the broader perspective. We do wish to improve the relations between our two countries. The Secretary said Chnoupek could convey that as the conviction of President Carter and the entire administration. He said there are principally two matters that have brought about the present condition in bilateral relations. One is the claims question and the return of the gold. The other arises out of and is connected with Czechoslovak treatment of US journalists and the Charter 77 movement. The Secretary said he would be less than frank if he did not make this clear.

5. The Secretary said Ambassador Byrne is authorized to begin discussions with Chnoupek to try to resolve the claims matter so that relations can progress. He noted that the 1974 Agreement had been rejected by Congress and that Congress must approve a new agreement under our laws, or otherwise it will have no force and effect. Congress has said that the total sum must be substantially raised or there will not be an agreement. The Secretary realized that this made things very difficult for Chnoupek but without this substantial increase it would be impossible to get congressional approval. He said Ambassador Byrne has been given authority to discuss these matters with Chnoupek and that he has our full confidence and support in working out a settlement, if that is possible. He is speaking on behalf of and with the full backing of the government. The Secretary said he hoped discussions can go forward because without progress our relations will be affected. Secondly, the Secretary said we are familiar with the problems this has raised. We hope the future will bring some changes in these matters and will remove some of the obstacles. He noted the forthcoming visit of the Deputy Minister of Foreign Trade and the new agreement reached in the scientific and cultural exchanges field. He saw those as positive factors and hoped we can move in that direction. He said we want to move forward but must deal with the two problems.

6. Chnoupek said he will meet again soon with Ambassador Byrne. The claims issue was the main problem in bilateral relations. He said he is grateful the Secretary mentioned the visit of the Deputy Minister of Foreign Trade on the occasion of the meeting of the Economic Council and hopes he will have access to appropriate officials.³ The Secretary said he will. Chnoupek said the Czechoslovak side has tried to come forward to meet the US side on the scientific and cultural agreement. As for the journalists and Charter 77 Chnoupek said he has discussed those matters with everyone he has met. The discussion of internal affairs was a matter of reciprocity. When the US presents a list of articles about the US taken from the Czechoslovak press, Czechoslovakia has a list of articles about it taken from the US press. Sometimes, as in the case of Charter 77, it becomes a concentrated issue. Chnoupek said it is a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg. He referred to dreadful articles in the US press calling Ambassador Johannes a KGB spy. The Secretary said he had missed them. Chnoupek wondered what the US wants when the “official press”, not to speak of Radio Free Europe, speaks of a normalized Czechoslovakia. He said the ideological struggle will be continued and the US will not praise Czechoslovakia as a Communist country. The US follows a different road and Czechoslovakia believes in different goals. In the bilateral dialogue, ethical norms should be observed. Chnoupek apologized for bringing all this up in the first meeting but said it was necessary to clarify matters and this had been the first chance in three years for such a discussion. He said he would report the Secretary’s views immediately to the President and to the government.

7. The Secretary thought that in human rights matters the Belgrade Conference can be, and he thought will be, a constructive dialogue. The US is not approaching it in a spirit of confrontation, or with a view to engaging in polemical rhetoric against any other country; but we are approaching it in a spirit of serious review of where progress has been made, when progress has not been made and to develop guidelines to help us make progress in the future. The Belgrade Conference is a forum in which there can be discussion of new initiatives. The Secretary hoped a better understanding and a strengthening of relations will come out of the conference. The initial reports from the US delegation is that that is the spirit on both sides.

8. Chnoupek said the Secretary’s position was also the Czechoslovak position in substance. Czechoslovakia sees the Final Act as a comprehensive whole and does not want to extract individual sections, such as human rights, for debate. If that happens, there will be a big battle. He spoke of his years in propaganda work and the different views on both sides on this matter which would make it impossible to speak of a constructive dialogue. He referred to his sharp discussion on human rights with Netherlands Foreign Minister Van der Stoel earlier this year. Chnoupek concluded that the Czechoslovak delegation at Belgrade is prepared for a constructive discussion. Chnoupek said they had made a good beginning and the Secretary said he hoped to see Chnoupek again.

Christopher

1. Source: National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, D770368–0619. Confidential; Exdis; Priority. Drafted by Andrews; cleared by Luers; approved by Anderson. The meeting took place in New York at the annual meeting of the UN General Assembly.
2. In telegram 2615 from Prague, September 15, the Embassy reported the conversation between Ambassador Bryne and the Czechoslovak Foreign Minister. The discussion covered bilateral relations, including treatment of the United States in the Czechoslovak press. Chnoupek told Byrne that, while he understood U.S. dissatisfaction with the treatment, he “could not see any hope for amelioration in the near future, as press was province of ideologues, not government.” (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, D770335–0022) See also footnote 3, Document 97.
3. Jakubec visited the United States in October 1977 to attend the U.S.-Czechoslovak Economic Council meeting. The Department reported his October 28 meeting with Vest in telegram 259591 to Prague, October 29. (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, D770399–0115)