271. Memorandum of Conversation1
PARTICIPANTS
- President Ford
- President Alfonso Lopez Michelson, President of Colombia
- Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State and Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
- Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
[There was small talk about soccer, while the photographers came in and took pictures.]
Lopez: Have you any news on oil? The OPEC meeting.
President: Brent?
Scowcroft: Not since I mentioned the latest to you this morning.
Kissinger: It looks like it will end at 10 percent.
President: The Saudis have been much tougher.
Lopez: Venezuela told me they were for 5 percent.
[Page 729]President: We can handle such an increase. But I worry about other countries for whom every increment is a heavy burden.
Kissinger: This is encouraging about Venezuela. They have been among the radicals.
President: We can do it, but Japan, Italy, etc., are not so fortunate. It is shortsighted. The higher the prices the more conservation they force.
Lopez: There is an increasing number of countries in the UN who are voting against you. Will it not bring an end to your patience? I ask, because it seems to me something must happen sooner or later.
Kissinger: Look at some of the new countries—Sao Tome, Cape Verde. There they sit with an equal vote and are very susceptible to radical pressures.
President: And I guess they can be easily corrupted.
Lopez: They have little to discuss, so they attack the United States. It is a conversation topic.
Kissinger: And it’s free. But we are beginning to keep a log of who talks and votes against us. Some of these guys are amazing; Kaunda sat right here and in answer to a question as to how to help get the right party elected in Angola, he said: “You get them in power first, then we will hold the elections.” Then in his evening toast he blasted us for undemocratic practices.
Lopez: The fact is the UN standards are lowering every year. I suspect sooner or later something will happen.
President: If the abuse continues to expand, I think Congress will react adversely. They can deny money.
Lopez: Or force your withdrawal.
President: We have to keep a record so we can go to them and say we won’t take this abuse and have you come back bilaterally for help.
Lopez: It is popular to vote against you.
Kissinger: But it will no longer be free.
Lopez: I hear they are thinking of expelling Chile from the UN. I’ll find out more this afternoon.
Kissinger: We will fight it. And South Africa.
Lopez: Even that?
Kissinger: I told the Africans we abhorred apartheid, but if it is done for one reason one time, it can be done for another reason another time.
Lopez: Even if they violate the Charter?
Kissinger: You can argue Namibia, but not apartheid.
Lopez: I am glad to hear, privately, that you will not tolerate abuse from the radicals. It looks bad for the moderates not to look as good.
President: I had a check made on the narcotics. I know it is of highest priority for you too. For this year we are appropriating $1.3 [Page 730] million, which is a huge increase. This gives us an opportunity to charter boats and aircraft—and we will look into the purchase of helicopters if necessary.
Lopez: I really thank you. I was pleased to hear a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee this morning saying you would provide money to help in the program. He raised it himself.
When I was here with the President Lleras to talk to President Nixon,we talked about the highway. I want you to know I no longer think it is that urgent. It is still a jungle and we must protect against hoof and mouth disease.
President: There was a meeting yesterday, and I think a timetable may be set. We are making progress.
Lopez: It is a necessity, but we are not in a hurry. It will cause me some political trouble in the region, but it is not a real problem.
President: We want you to know we are not holding back.
Lopez: No, we know that.
President: There is a Michigan delegation going to Colombia with 130 people in the trade delegation led by George Lambrinos. He is a good man.
Henry, how about Panama?
Kissinger: The important thing is not the details but the fact that the President has determined to move it to a conclusion. But we have to bring the Congress along carefully. We can’t take too big steps at once, and Torrijos must recognize that. If it is helpful to turn something over, we can manage that. I am speaking very frankly to you—Torrijos should not break up the talks.
Lopez: Exactly what I have said. I told Torrijos to look at the polls. There is a trend in the U.S. to a hard line. I said, “Look at the emergence of Wallace—he is a fact.” I said, “Let the Americans handle the problem their way.” They have a tendency to publish things they should not. You remember the letters. I told him I had to ask permission to publish them. I see completely that this is not the most favorable time to make concessions. To a certain extent the question is semantic. “Indefinite” has many meanings.
Kissinger: We have said 50 years. That is not our last word. But we know they can’t defend it themselves.
Lopez: We very much appreciate your having us here.
President: I thoroughly enjoyed our visit and your charming wife.
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Summary: Kissinger, Ford, and López discussed OPEC, the U.N., the Darien Gap, trade, and the Panama Canal.
Source: Ford Library, National Security Adviser, NSC Latin American Affairs Staff Files, Box 15, Visit, September 25–26, 1975, President López of Colombia, 6. Secret; Nodis. The meeting was held in the Oval Office. On September 26, Kissinger and López held a follow-up conversation, in which they discussed regional and world issues, and European history. (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, P820125–0025) Rogers sent Kissinger a briefing memorandum in advance of this meeting on September 19. (Ibid., ARA/NCA Files, Records Relating to Colombia, 1967–1975: Lot 78D45, POL 7.2, López State Visit, 3)
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