270. Memorandum of Conversation1
PARTICIPANTS
- President Gerald Ford
- President Alfonso Lopez Michelsen of Colombia
- Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State and Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
- Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
- Felipe Lopez, Private Secretary and Son of the President
The President: It is a real pleasure to meet you and have you here. We have already agreed that we have no problems.
Lopez: We have no problem at all. For example, with your AID we have decided that we don’t need your help any more. You can use the funds for needy countries.
The President: We readily appreciate your cooperation. We have had other experiences where countries having no obvious need keep on asking. It gives us trouble with the Congress.
Lopez: We are going to get 40–50 percent more from our coffee exports. Why should we ask for aid?
The President: It is really a fine example and will be helpful.
[Page 725]Lopez: On coffee, we could get along with no agreement, but others want to go ahead with an agreement and we will go along. We will let Brazil use second-grade coffee to keep their quota. The same with sugar.
On the trade bill, we are not affected in any way, but we resent the treatment of Venezuela and Ecuador. I know it was not the Executive Branch that wanted this.
The President: We have been working hard to get that changed. I am convinced it was a mistake, because neither country supported the oil embargo. I don’t think Congress knew what it was doing.
Kissinger: We are supporting the Green Amendment.
Lopez: I am having lunch with them. Is there anything I can do?
The President: I would tell them how Latin America feels about this. You can do this effectively because you aren’t affected. You can also point out that you are giving up aid and not going to blackmail your own coffee prices.
Lopez: I will do that. After all, coffee consumption is declining.
On the drug problem. It is a worldwide problem, but because of our situation, we are the center of traffic. I made a strong statement because the New York Times blamed us.
The President: They blame me for everything else!
Lopez: A small country like us is invaded by people with and without passports, by planes, boats, etc., heavily financed from within the U.S. We don’t have the materials to fight back.
The President: How can we help?
Lopez: We could use technology and economic help. We could use helicopters to find where the planes land. We catch them all the time.
Kissinger: We gave $900,000 for that.
Lopez: It is too little. The tourists spend $50 million in Colombia. It has just gone up to $250 million. That is not tourists—it is bribes, etc.
We have both a Pacific coast and an Atlantic coast which makes it ideal for smugglers. If you could help us to deal with them, we wouldappreciate it.
The President: We will do everything we can. It is a terrible problem for us and we want to do everything possible. Do you need technical people or money, both, or what?
Kissinger: I asked Brent to look into the possibility of helicopters. We have given them elsewhere.
The President: By all means, we will look into it. Are helicopters the best way?
Lopez: Yes, to locate airfields and boats.
The President: I would suggest you mention this in your meetings with the Congress. If they know you are working so hard to solve it, it will help us to get the money to help.
[Page 726]Lopez: The drug operators are worldwide. You can’t deal with the problem by just dealing with it in the U.S.
The President: That is right. We have found that after the decline in drug use, but recently it has been on the rise again and with harder drugs.
Lopez: We can’t control marijuana. We try to control traffic in it, but we concentrate on cocaine and heroin.
The President: Drug users account for a high quantity of crime in the U.S. Their demands are insatiable.
Lopez: Now let’s discuss Panama—[to Kissinger] your favorite subject. [Laughter]
Torrijos came to see me a few days ago. [To Kissinger] Do you know him?
Kissinger: I have met him, a year ago.
Lopez: I am sorry to see your Embassy was attacked.
Kissinger: They are making a mistake. We are trying to get it done, but we have to say certain things. And it is terribly emotional in this country and we can’t do it until the elections are over. Then we can sign in 1977.
Lopez: Let me be frank. Torrijos says the same thing, that he has to have something to show.
The President: We sent Bunker down there with a new position.
Kissinger: Yes, it was much more forthcoming. We did start with 50 years, though.
Lopez: They don’t think so. Let me tell you, it is easier for a small country to negotiate with a big one than with one of equal size. I would rather negotiate with the Soviet Union than Panama.
I asked how they would defend the Canal. They said they had thought of that and offered to let the U.S. in in case of aggression.
In the Canal Zone, they want to have full jurisdiction.
Kissinger: That they can get after the transition period. That is not the problem. The problem is about guerrilla action and the borderline between civil disturbance and guerrilla action.
Lopez: It is between action against third parties and action between Panamanians.
Kissinger: Yes. We do have the right to defend the Canal against third parties. We have asked for 50 years, but we can slip that.
Lopez: Do you need fourteen bases?
Kissinger: Look, we can maneuver so we can give up more, but if we have to do it all now and with publicity, the Congress will stop it. We must have time. We sent a different team down there and we found we can give up a lot. We can give up a little at a time so that over the [Page 727] period they will get what they need. But we need to maneuver. The House just voted again to take away our ability to negotiate.
The President: That is right, and 32 senators sent me a letter against a treaty. They should know that a newly-elected President can do a lot that I can’t now.
Lopez: If you could do something without negotiating.
Kissinger: Outside the discussions?
Lopez: Yes. Something you are not going to use.
Kissinger: You think that would help?
Lopez: Very much.
Kissinger: That I think we can do. Defense would go along with some of that. We had been holding it back for the negotiation, but we can do it now.
Lopez: The small things. Torrijos has his own enemies who say he is getting nowhere after a year. If he had something concrete, even small, it would help him.
Kissinger: We will look at it. We had decided against it in the NSC.
The President: Let’s look into it.
Kissinger: I haven’t looked at the Defense team report, but we can do something.
Lopez: I want to make clear I am not threatening. I am not the bearer of any threats.
The President: You will be very well received on the Hill. No threats,giving up aid, help on drugs.
Lopez: I don’t want to say that without a treaty Panama could be another Vietnam.
Kissinger: If you could tell them, however, the attitude of all of Latin America, so then they understand just what the attitudes are.
The President: I didn’t realize until I was preparing for you that Colombia had transit rights.
Lopez: Yes. The treaty of Thomson-Urrutia. We would negotiate with Panama after they got control. They are willing to give the U.S. the right of military intervention, but as allies, not unilaterally. What they don’t like is the assertion of the right of intervention in the Canal Zone based on the treaty of 1903. Over the next 18 months, then, I will try to present the picture of the two of you working together and that things are moving along. Torrijos doesn’t always follow my advice, but he listens to me.
The President: We were talking in the Blue Room about inflation. Colombia is doing better than we are, but we both are scared as we look around the world.
[Page 728]Lopez: One way we are doing it is to fight inflation by inflation—we raise interest rates very high to sop up demand. It is working.
The President: Our big problem is fiscal. We do have interest rates high, but we are running a deficit of $60–80–90 billion.
Lopez: According to the World Bank, we made the most radical tax reform in the world. More so than Canada. We had a fiscal problem, but we have doubled the interest rates in one year. This is better than issuing more money.
(The meeting ended.)
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Summary: Ford, Kissinger, and López discussed trade issues, narcotics, and the Panama Canal.
Source: Ford Library, National Security Adviser, NSC Latin American Affairs Staff Files, Box 15, Visit, September 25–26, 1975, President Lopez of Colombia, 5. Secret; Nodis. The meeting took place in the Oval Office. In an undated memorandum, Kissinger briefed the President on topics López would want to discuss, which included trade, U.S. assistance, the Panama Canal, the Quita Sueño treaty, and narcotics. The Secretary noted that the Green Amendment would give the President discretionary authority to exempt Venezuela and Ecuador, which did not participate in the 1973–1974 oil embargo, from the OPEC countries’ exclusion from the GSP. (Ibid.) In telegram 8463 from Bogotá, September 4, Vaky, in preparation for the meeting, stated that Colombia desired to forge a more independent relationship with the United States and aimed to be a spokesman on regional issues. (Ibid.)
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