72. Minutes of Secretary of State Kissinger’s Principals and Regionals Staff Meeting1
[Omitted here are a list of attendees and discussion of unrelated matters.]
Secretary Kissinger: How are we moving the Panama negotiations? I can not get out of our negotiator what the hell he wants. I know he writes me these cryptic memoranda2 which are what—what exactly is the decision he wants out of the President?
Mr. Rogers: He wants more flexibility—that is to say, the authority to go down to really 25 years on the treaty—
Secretary Kissinger: Yes. And how long on defense?
Mr. Rogers: And 40 on defense.
Secretary Kissinger: Would the Panamanians accept that?
Mr. Rogers: He thinks so. They’ll take 25 years.
Secretary Kissinger: And would they take 40 on defense?
Mr. Rogers: I don’t know, but he thinks so; and that’s the card he wants to play.
The other thing is with respect to the second Canal option. The initial instructions required them to leave that option open for—I’ve forgotten the precise number of years. He wants to be able to negotiate an option which only goes for a couple of years.
Secretary Kissinger: Two years?
Mr. Rogers: Yes. A short period of time. We would have to make up our mind whether we were going to build a second Canal within a few years.
Secretary Kissinger: And if we build a second Canal, what does that give us?
Mr. Rogers: A second Canal.
Secretary Kissinger: Under the same terms—under the same terms as the preceding one?
Mr. Rogers: I don’t know the answer.
Secretary Kissinger: Or for a longer period?
Mr. Rogers: I don’t know the answer for you.
[Page 199]Secretary Kissinger: I’m glad you gave me this answer to the first question because I was confused there for a minute. (Laughter.)
Now, you’re going to find out for me about this interesting question?
Mr. Rogers: Of the terms upon which it’s proposed to have a second Canal? I’m sure.
Secretary Kissinger: O.K. How can we move this to a Presidential decision? There has to be a meeting. The President cannot decide this without a meeting, without getting knifed in the back by the Defense Department. We’ve got to have an SRG meeting first to know what arguments are going to come up and then an NSC meeting.
Mr. Rogers: I thought it was all arranged. The papers have been on for both meetings.3 The papers have been before you—both your Ambassador over here and your Ambassador over there. Is that right, Jerry?
Mr. Bremer: I saw the papers over the weekend. I’ll check on where we are.
Secretary Kissinger: In the papers you’ll look in vain for a precise definition as to what he wants, except more flexibility and that the terms that we are now offering are not adequate. But you will look in vain in these papers for a precise definition of what decision he wants from the President, except more flexibility. Secondly, the question of land use, on which he also wants more flexibility and on which he wants approval—he neither defines what land we are supposed to give up at the edges of town. Now, what exactly is it that he wants? I mean, you can’t tell—to give up land at the edges of town that is disputed by the Defense Department without knowing why the Defense Department is disputing it and what the hell the issue is.
The “edges of town” in Panama is not the most illustrative example, from what I’ve seen of Panama. (Laughter.) That probably means in the Canal Zone. Can it mean anything else? We don’t have any land anywhere else.
Mr. Rogers: Yes, sir.
Secretary Kissinger: So does he mean at the edge of Panama City?
Mr. Rogers: Yes. We can show you with great precision on a map.
Secretary Kissinger: I don’t want to see it on a map. I want to have a decision that the President can make. You can’t expect the President, who is going to be killed in the Congress with this, to give blanket authority to give up land at the edges of town without knowing why it is that the Defense Department opposes it.
[Page 200]Jerry, will you please line up an SRG meeting as soon as possible and then an NSC meeting? He will never get authority the way he’s proceeding. I won’t give him authority. What he wants is to be sent down there with a carte blanche to come back with a treaty. Even that he can get if he puts it in a manner that the President can understand.
[Omitted here is discussion of unrelated matters.]
- Source: National Archives, RG 59, Transcripts of Secretary of State Kissinger’s Staff Meetings, 1973–1977, Lot 78D443, Box 6, Secretary’s Staff Meetings, April 14, 1975. Secret.↩
- See Document 71.↩
- See footnote 1, Document 73.↩