315. Memorandum of Conversation0
SECRETARY’S DELEGATION TO THE EIGHTEENTH SESSION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY
New York, September 1963
SUBJECT
- Indonesian Relations with British and Malaysians
PARTICIPANTS
- U.S.
- Secretary of State
- Ambassador Yost
- Robert L. Kinney, Regional Adviser on Far Eastern Affairs
- Foreign
- H.E. Subandrio, Foreign Minister of Indonesia
- H.E. Dr. Zairin Zain, Ambassador of Indonesia to the U.S.
The Secretary said that the Department had become increasingly concerned over recent developments in Djakarta. He specified the disturbances against the British and Malaysian representation, the flagrant disregard by the GOI of British legation rights (and, since Ambassador Jones is Dean of the Diplomatic Corps in Indonesia, we feel a direct responsibility in this matter), the illegal take-over of British enterprises and, most recently, the GOI’s break in trade relations with Malaysia.
The Foreign Minister promptly deplored the mob actions and emotional reaction which had led to excesses. He said, however, that much of what had taken place had occurred after his departure from Djakarta, and he pleaded lack of full detailed information.
He maintained that much of what had happened was due to “emotionalism” rather than reason.
He agreed with the Secretary that the break in trade relations would harm Indonesia more than Malaya. He suggested, somewhat uneasily, that perhaps the Indonesians had no choice except to take the initiative. He said that he understood that the Tunku, in announcing a break in diplomatic relations had indicated that this would include trade.
Minister Subandrio volunteered that Indonesia would not raise the Malaysian question in the UNGA except to refer to GOI posture in the delegate’s speech.
He said that he was sure that the GOI take-over of British enterprises was purely protective in nature and not a move toward nationalization, [Page 687] which he termed “not in Indonesian interest.” However, he said that he had been away and could not assess fully from this distance whether there was now a “political” mood for nationalization.
In response to the Secretary’s question as to when the British firms might be returned to their regular operators, the Minister said the GOI would have to “go slow” due to “strong” domestic pressures.
The Secretary inquired whether the Indonesian people wouldn’t follow the lead of Sukarno if he chose to rectify that situation promptly. The Minister said “Sukarno can’t take a straight path.”
The Secretary said that he was rather surprised that the Indonesians were so antagonistic toward the British in relation to their efforts to withdraw from their former colonial holdings. He asked if the Indonesians had ever expressed territorial interest in British Borneo.
The Minister denied that Indonesia had any Borneo ambitions. He said that Indonesians had been “humiliated” by British treatment of them in relation to implementation of the Manila agreement. He said that emotional reaction was a major factor.
The Secretary asked about the strength of the PKI within Indonesian Army ranks. The Minister indicated that this is negligible, especially since most troops now are quartered in barracks rather than in Kampangs (villages) where the PKI previously had better access to them. He said that the PKI is becoming split and that while 90% of the Party previously supported Peking, the Soviet line adherents were increasing in strength.
The Secretary said that recent developments such as the economic break with Malaysia, which would inevitably dry up the economy, cripple the balance of payments and stifle trade, appear to be just the reverse of what is called for in the light of Indonesia’s national interest. He said that if the area is kept in turmoil this can have very serious results. The integrity of Indonesia with her 3,000 populated islands depends upon peace and stability. He said that no one nation in the region has a greater stake in peace than Indonesia.
However, the Secretary pointed out, the decisions on these questions are Indonesia’s. He repeated our concern about recent developments and took occasion to remind the Minister that the United States feels special concern about the status of legation rights. He said that we would be taking an active interest in this subject both through the Embassy in Djakarta and internationally.
- Source: Department of State, Central Files, POL INDON–MALAYSIA. Confidential. Drafted by Kinney on September 25 and approved in S on September 30. The meeting was held at USUN.↩