740.00119 Council/9–1445
Memorandum of Conversation, by Mr. Charles E. Bohlen, Special Assistant to the Secretary of State *
| Participants: | The Secretary |
| Mr. Bohlen | |
| Mr. Molotov | |
| Mr. Gusev | |
| Mr. Pavlov |
The Secretary, in explaining the United States proposal concerning collective trusteeship for the Italian colonies, contained in the United States memorandum submitted this morning,96 said that the people of the Arab states had supported us during this war because they had faith in the declaration of principles which we had all made during the war, and particularly with respect to the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they were to live. He added that the U. S. proposal would have the additional advantage that it would demonstrate to all the world that no one country was attempting [Page 164] to gain special privilege for itself in regard to these colonies; that no national military bases or military establishments would be set up in these colonies, and would thus constitute a strong assurance for collective security. He said that in ten years the new generation in these colonies both Italian and Arab would undoubtedly be in a position to develop their own police force. The presence of the principal nations of the world on the trusteeship and security councils of the United Nations would assure that each nation would have a voice in the administration of these territories, and thus no one nation would feel that any other was gaining an advantage.
Mr. Molotov replied that he thought it would be desirable for us to reach in advance an agreement here as to what nations should administer what colonies under general trusteeship, or at least decide in advance from what nation the administrator of a given territory should come. The Secretary replied that in his opinion it would be better to choose an administrator from some neutral country having no direct interest in the colonies. He feared that if this was not done, for example, Italy would claim the right to have an Italian administrator in Libya because of her experience and because of the presence of an Italian population. He went on to say that, however, in addition the American proposal contemplated the appointment of an advisory committee which would have representatives on the spot who would be able to watch the character of the administration and report any instances of maladministration or violation of the principles of trusteeship to the Trustee council.
Mr. Molotov said that the Secretary’s proposal was one of the most interesting that had been submitted and deserved the most careful study. He said that the Soviet Government stood by the decision reached in San Francisco that colonies taken from the enemy states should be placed under the trusteeship council of the United Nations. He added, however, that the Soviet Union believed that under this trustee administration each one of these colonies should be turned over to one member of the United Nations for administration. He said in regard to at least one of the Italian colonies the Soviet Union would like to try its hand at colonial administration under the general trusteeship principle. The Soviet Government had had considerable experience in bringing about friendly relations between nationals, and he felt that if Tripolitania was entrusted to the Soviet Union for Administration, they would not lag behind any other country in their development of the welfare of the people and in preparing them for independence within ten years. He added that the Soviet Government felt, of course, that the United States should likewise administer at least one of the Italian colonies, and Great Britain another. He [Page 165] added that in his opinion the only rivalry would be as to which country could prove itself to be the best administrator.
The Secretary replied that in so far as the United States was concerned, they did not wish to undertake such a burden, although they would be glad to participate in the trusteeship council. Mr. Molotov asked what about the Philippines. The Secretary replied that we had acquired the Philippines as the result of the Spanish-American War, and that we had therefore accepted this burden and duty which had been thrust upon us, but that we would not voluntarily assume such a burden in respect of other colonial areas. He pointed out that we are now giving the Philippines full independence.
The Secretary said the American proposal was based on the belief that Italy had not lived up to her responsibilities as a colonial power. Mr. Molotov agreed to this, and said that it was because they felt they could do better than Italy that he proposed that one of the Italian colonies be placed under Soviet administration under a general trusteeship agreement.
The Secretary said that he wished to speak frankly to Mr. Molotov; that if the Soviet Union, the United States, and Great Britain each took a colony for single administration, France and other nations would likewise wish to acquire one on the same basis. He said in those circumstances the whole world would regard the arrangement as a repetition of the division of spoils of war cloaked under a general trusteeship agreement, and he felt that all our reputations would suffer. He said that under our scheme, the U.S.S.R. would be assured of a voice in naming the administrator through its membership on the trusteeship council, and would furthermore be in a position to check on the administration through its representative on the advisory council. He said that in both of these bodies the admitted experience of the Soviet Union in dealing with nationalities would be available and of great help.
Mr. Molotov said that he foresaw difficulties in the choice of an administrator. It would be very difficult for the nations to agree upon any individual since he would have to be a citizen of one country or another, and the whole problem of national control would then arise. For example, if the choice is an Englishman, the colony would then be the equivalent of an English colony, and the same would apply if the choice were a Soviet citizen. If, on the other hand, it were a citizen of a neutral country, there would be great competition among the other nations in an endeavor to influence him in the direction of their respective national policies. He felt therefore that to face the issue squarely and to assign the colony for administration to one country would produce less friction. The Secretary replied that he did not agree with that since he felt that if the citizen of a disinterested [Page 166] country were appointed, say, from Sweden or Switzerland, all nations would then have assurances that there would be no military establishment, no army developed in that colony, since the administrator would have no interest in doing so. Mr. Molotov repeated that he felt that there would be great difficulty in agreeing on the administrator. The Secretary concluded the interview by saying that if they were unable to agree, with the whole world to choose from, on administrators for these colonies, he could not, in God’s world, see how it would be possible to agree on what countries they should be turned over to for administration.