Foreign Relations of the United States, 1981–1988, Volume VI, Soviet Union, October 1986–January 1989

176. Memorandum of Conversation¹

Washington, September 23, 1988, 1–2:30 p.m.

SUBJECT

• The Secretary’s Meeting with Shevardnadze: Final Plenary Session

PARTICIPANTS

• U.S.

  • George P. Shultz, Secretary of State
  • Colin Powell, National Security Advisor to the President
  • Rozanne L. Ridgway, Assistant Secretary of State (EUR)
  • Jack Matlock, U.S. Ambassador to the USSR
  • plus heads and members of working groups
  • Dimitri Zarechnak (interpreter)

• USSR

  • Eduard A. Shevardnadze, Minister of Foreign Affairs
  • Aleksandr A. Bessmertnykh, Deputy Foreign Minister
  • Viktor P. Karpov, Directorate Head, Soviet MFA
  • Yuriy V. Dubinin, Soviet Ambassador to the U.S.
  • plus heads and members of working groups
  • Pavel Palazhchenko, MFA (interpreter)

The Secretary opened the meeting by noting that reports had already been heard that morning from the Nuclear Testing Working Group and the Conventional Arms Working Group. The Secretary asked the Regional Working Group to complete the report it had started earlier.

Regional Working Group

Mr. Solomon, noting that both sides had agreed on common language, read the text of his report (attached).² Ambassador Polyakhov stated that there were no differences over principles between the two drafts of the joint statement. He said the working group would prepare a one-part joint statement. The Secretary and Shevardnadze agreed that the joint report provided an adequate basis to summarize progress in the regional working group for the joint statement.

Bilateral Issues

Mr. Silins read text of his report (attached).³ Mr. Sredin noted that there had been tangible results in the development of bilateral relations including a significant increase in contacts. The summit had given positive impulse to bilateral affairs. Issues needing to be addressed include: maritime boundaries, world pollution, atomic reactor safety, change in world climate, basic research, air and maritime transportation safety. He noted the Soviet side had expressed dissatisfaction with current trade and economic ties. Positive changes had come about in the number of regular contacts and the U.S. reaction to Soviet initiatives had been positive. He said the Soviet side had prepared a joint part for the joint statement.

Crocker-Vasev Talks on Africa

Assistant Secretary Crocker, noting that Vasev was not yet present, read his statement (attached).⁴

START and Defense and Space Working Group

Amb. Nitze read the U.S. side’s report (attached).⁵ Amb. Obukhov noted that the working group had addressed a wide range of issues, including aspects of the START negotiations and ABM Treaty compliance. He noted disagreement had occurred over the Krasnoyarsk radar. Special attention had been given to ALCMs and mobile ICBMs on which the Soviet Union had suggested new proposals, which the U.S. side had agreed to consider further. Obukhov stated that new elements on which agreement had been reached were recorded in the minutes of the working group. He said that the U.S. side had not responded to a Soviet proposal on long-range SLCMs. The issue of non-launch into space was discussed as was the issue of prohibiting an increase in existing numbers of warheads on ICBMs. Discussions on these questions would continue in Geneva. He said the Soviet side had agreed on language for inclusion into the joint statement.

Chemical Weapons Working Group

Assistant Secretary Holmes read a joint report (attached).⁶ He added a unilateral U.S. statement pointing out the U.S. side: invited the Soviet side to join in a call for an immediate international investigation of evidence of Iraqi use of CW against its Kurdish population, and expressed its concern over the evidence that Libya has established a CW production facility and is nearing full-scale production. Amb. Nazarkin noted that the Soviet side too was concerned by reports of the proliferation of CW. The Soviet Union condemned not only the transfer of CW but also their use. He added that proper consultations were needed on this issue.

Human Rights Working Group

Amb. Schifter presented his report (attached).⁷ Mr. Glukhov reported that the spirit of the discussions had been open and businesslike. He noted the U.S. interest in the on-going process of reform taking place in the Soviet Union. He said the Soviet side had expressed its desire for an early and successful conclusion of the work in Vienna. Glukhov reported that the group had discussed how to ensure the continuation of activities during the U.S. presidential transition period. The group also discussed guidelines for parliamentary exchanges and meetings of working groups and expert level groups.

Nuclear Testing Working Group

The Secretary noted that reports had already been received from the Nuclear Testing Working Group. He asked if anything new should be added. Amb. Robinson read an agreed statement (attached).⁸ Mr. Palenykh said he agreed with the U.S. statement.

Conventional Weapons Working Group

Amb. Grinevskiy noted that after the group’s earlier report to Ministers (during the morning small group meeting)⁹ they had continued on the fighter aircraft issue. He said there was practical agreement between the sides on a text for the mandate for Conventional Stability Talks, but disagreement remained on Soviet language referring to land-battle-capable systems. Grinevskiy described the U.S. position that such language was not specific enough nor was it necessary. EUR Deputy Assistant Secretary Thomas said that the U.S. side did not see the introduction of “land-battle-capable” helped the Soviet Union in any way. The U.S. objected to the phrase because it was ambiguous and attempted to prejudge certain issues which should be discussed in the negotiations themselves. In any event, nothing in the current mandate language would preclude the Soviet Union in the eventual negotiations from raising its desire to exclude fighter aircraft.

The Secretary’s Concluding Remarks

The Secretary stated that the foregoing reports demonstrated that the working group process was worthwhile. He noted some significant progress in certain areas and not very much in others. On the whole, however, there was a contribution made in all outstanding issues. The Secretary stated that the prospects for concluding the Vienna CSCE review meeting in the near future were better than he had thought at the beginning of the Ministerial. He was reassured that the nuclear testing effort could fall into place. Furthermore, our joint concerns about CW were more evident. This increased the prospects for success in the Geneva CD negotiations and would help sound alarms around the world given the present threatening environment. He noted that we continue to make progress on human rights and humanitarian affairs: the contrasts on these issues with the situation three years ago was perhaps the greatest. Bilateral issues also continue to move along. The Secretary noted that the general improvement of U.S.-Soviet relations had played a role in defusing regional hotspots such as Afghanistan and the Gulf war, and could be particularly useful in the future in Africa. He concluded by expressing his statisfaction that both sides had managed to turn into normal what seemed extraordinary not long ago.

Shevardnadze’s Concluding Remarks

Shevardnadze said he agreed with the Secretary that the sides could take satisfaction in their work to date, although there remained elements of disappointment. He noted that there was real progress on nuclear testing, with completed protocols to be done by year’s end, and on CW. He observed that positions have moved closer on a mandate for conventional arms control and that greater understanding had been attained in regional issues. As far as those working on human rights issues, Shevardnadze noted approvingly, “let them work on.” As for ABM and NST issues, however, there was practically no movement. In general, useful work had been accomplished over the months and he thanked all the assembled experts and the Secretary for their “good hard work.”

1. Source: Department of State, Executive Secretariat, S/S–IRM Records, Memoranda of Conversations Pertaining to United States and USSR Relations, 1981–1990, Lot 93D188, Ministerial Memcons, Secret. Drafted by Stephenson, Stoffer, and Wolff; cleared by Pifer and Vershbow. Vershbow initialed for the drafters and for Pifer. The meeting took place in the Monroe Room at the Department of State.
2. Attached but not printed is the “Regional Working Group Report to Ministers.”
3. Attached but not printed is the “Bilateral Working Group” report.
4. Attached but not printed is “Summary Points—Crocker/Vasev Discussion.”
5. Attached but not printed is the “Report of the START and Defense and Space Working Group.”
6. Attached but not printed is the “Report to the Ministers by the Chemical Weapons Working Group.”
7. Attached but not printed is the “Human Rights Working Group Report.”
8. Attached but not printed is the “Nuclear Testing Group Report to Ministers.”
9. See Document 175.