49. Memorandum for the Record by Peter Bourne, Executive Director of the UN Development Programme1
SUBJECT
- Meeting with Fidel Castro
The meeting lasted approximately two hours. Those present were Vice Minister of Health, Dr. Ernesto de la Torre, a member of Castro’s staff who took notes, my interpreter, Fidel Castro and myself. There was some initial confusion about the seating arrangement that got the meeting off to a stiff beginning. Castro asked me about what I had seen and particularly what my impressions were of the Cuban health care system. I was able to respond with genuine enthusiasm. Not only was the primary health care system very impressive but the obvious success in reducing infant mortality and eradicating diseases such as malaria was striking. I also described how immensely impressed I was by the Havana mental hospital in this country.
I mentioned that we had discussed the embargo as it related to drugs and medical journals, and I hope that we might be able to work out an exemption on humanitarian grounds although I explained that the imminence of the election next year made any change very difficult.
We then talked about the Presidential election. He had many questions about the individual candidates; I reviewed my estimate of the chances for each of them. I told him that the most likely scenario was for Reagan to get the Republican nomination and then be beaten by [Page 108] Carter in the general election. He expressed his strong wish for the President to be reelected then added, “Can you imagine a world with Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher?” I suggested that he could help President Carter’s chances for reelection by not precipitating any events that the Republicans could use against him. Specifically, I cited the need for Cuban restraint in avoiding a major military confrontation in Rhodesia, and suggested that he use his influence to prevent the Non-Aligned summit in Havana in September from becoming a forum for anti-U.S. statements. I stressed the serious concern that exists in this country about Cuban involvement in Africa and the lack of any chance to significantly improve U.S./Cuban relations until there was some clear evidence that they were reducing that involvement.
He talked about his strong desire to improve relations with the United States and talked at length about the high regard he had for President Carter. He cited his appreciation for the steps taken early in the administration to improve relations, and the President’s willingness to fight the battle over the Panama canal. He also said he felt his leadership on SALT and his attempts, no matter how frustrated, to deal with the energy problem.
With regard to Cubans overseas Castro talked about the vision he has to make Cuban technical talent an exportable commodity. Cuba’s education system is being geared to provide advanced technical education to anyone who has the capacity to benefit from it, and to produce numbers of these individuals well in excess of Cuba’s needs. His intention then is to send them to the developing world wherever they are requested, having the host country pay for their services when they are able to, and working free where they can not.
We talked about the health of the world and how it could be improved. We discussed specifically the eradication of smallpox and what this dramatic accomplishment meant in terms of dealing with other infectious diseases in the developing world. He was particularly interested in the new efforts in the United States to shape people’s health by trying to influence behavior patterns relating to diet, smoking, driving, drinking, etc. Cuba is on the verge of eliminating infectious disease as a major cause of mortality, and he was interested in adopting some of the strategies that we have found useful in extending life span in a post infectious disease era.
We talked about water, and my role with the U.N. Water Decade.2 I specifically asked for his personal commitment to support the Decade’s [Page 109] goals in Cuba, and also suggested it was an area in which he might take the lead with the Non-Aligned nations.
We discussed my background and my early relationship to President Carter.
I found Castro to be low key and very well informed. He asked most of the questions and I did most of the talking. I had the sense that twenty years after the revolution there is a great deal of satisfaction with what has been achieved in Cuba in terms of improving the quality of life. However, with perhaps another twenty years of active political life ahead of him, it is clear that he now is thinking in terms of a global role. He might alter his Africa strategy for pragmatic reasons, but basically to ask him to reverse completely Cuba’s overseas involvement is asking him to abandon what he clearly sees as his destiny. Despite our objections to his specific military involvements it was clear to me that he had great understanding and empathy with the peoples of the developing world, and perceives the global political trends in a very perceptive way.
- Source: Carter Library, National Security Affairs, Staff Material, North/South, Pastor, Country, Box 16, Cuba SCC 7/20/79 Meeting, 10/78–8/79. No classification marking.↩
- Bourne was the Coordinator of the International Drinking Water Decade, a United Nations program designed to provide clean drinking water to millions of people worldwide.↩