466. Memorandum of Conversation1
SUBJECT
- President Carter’s Meeting with President Zia-ul-Haq of Pakistan
PARTICIPANTS
-
U.S. Side
- President Jimmy Carter
- Secretary of State, Edmund Muskie
- Zbigniew Brzezinski, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
- Henry Owen
- Assistant Secretary Harold Saunders
- Arthur W. Hummel, U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan
- Thomas P. Thornton, Notetaker
-
Pakistan Side
- Zia ul-Haq, President of Pakistan
- Foreign Minister, Agha Shahi
- Finance Minister Ghulam Ishaq Khan
- Lt. Gen. Rahimuddin Khan, Governor of Baluchistan
- Lt. Gen. Mujibur Rahman Khan, Secretary of Information
- Sultan Mohammad Khan, Pakistan Ambassador
- Najimuddin Shaikh, Notetaker—Pakistan Embassy
The two presidents went directly to the Oval Office where pictures were taken. They then remained there with Dr. Brzezinski until 11:53 a.m.2 at which time they came into the Cabinet Room.
President Carter said how deeply honored he was to receive the visit of President Zia and that the two had a very fruitful conversation together. President Carter said that he had expressed to President Zia the deep admiration that Americans have for the people and leaders of Pakistan for the way that they face pressure, but also for the humanity that they have shown to the many refugees that have come to Pakistan from Afghanistan.
The United States, he continued, is grateful for the good relations between our two countries. He noted that he and President Zia had been able to discuss some of the issues of mutual interest to the two countries, and President Zia had reported to him on his efforts in the Iran-Iraq crisis.
President Carter observed that Pakistan is located in a very troubled region that affects both Pakistani and American security. President [Page 1062] Carter said that he had outlined the growing US military presence in Southwest Asia to President Zia. He concluded by saying that he is honored by President Zia’s visit and deeply grateful for Pakistan’s contribution to regional security and peace, which affect both countries directly.
President Zia responded that he was grateful for the invitation to the United States, which Pakistan considers an ally and a friend. President Zia said that the Pakistani people admire President Carter as a sincere person, a man of God and of the Book, and hold him in high esteem.
President Zia hoped that his briefing on the Iran-Iraq situation had been helpful. He feels that if the two countries are left to themselves, there is likely to be a stalemate and that may be the best outcome.
President Zia also expressed thanks for American help with the Afghan refugees and added that more assistance would be welcome.
President Carter said that the United States would do what it can and would help to get others, such as Japan and Canada, to assume a more fair share of the burden.
President Zia noted that there are from thirty to thirty-five thousand additional refugees each month; by years end, the total refugee count will be 1.3 or 1.4 million.
President Carter asked how the Pakistani people feel about the refugee flow.
President Zia replied that they were being very supportive. Also, the refugees were showing very correct qualities and that was widely appreciated. There were of course occasional problems over such things as grazing rights. In response to a question from President Carter, Zia said that while some 50,000 refugees had moved deeper into Pakistan, the great bulk of them remained within ten or fifteen miles of the border.
Secretary Muskie said that in the past ten days he has had a series of good discussions with his European counterparts. He found that the Iran-Iraq conflict had refocussed their attention on the region—not just the Gulf, but also Afghanistan and Pakistan. He believes that this would be a good time to approach the Europeans on refugee assistance and other problems. Secretary Muskie said that he had already told this to Agha Shahi who had seemed skeptical, but the opportunity was in any event worth pursuing.3
[Page 1063]Foreign Minister Agha Shahi replied that he has passed this on to President Zia who would soon be meeting with Thatcher and Schmidt. He suggested to President Zia that Zia might ask them to demonstrate their interest in the region in a concrete way.
President Zia observed that if they didn’t come to this conclusion by themselves, circumstances would force them.
Secretary Muskie agreed that as long as the US and Pakistan carried the burden, others would be content to let them do so.
President Carter asked what had been the outcome of Pakistan’s discussions with the International Monetary Fund on the debt relief question.
Finance Minister Ghulam Ishaq said that agreement had been reached on all issues except import liberalization; Pakistan needed some flexibility on that score. The IMF had suggested a stabilization program and all components of a stabilization program are in place. He described the gratifying pace of Pakistani growth. He did not want Pakistan to follow a three-year IMF program and then afterwards be left just where it is today (presumably with regard to its balance of payments position). Action must be taken on the supply as well as the demand side. If anybody could tell him how to manage the demand side more effectively than is being done now, he would be glad to hear it.
The IMF, Ghulam Ishaq said, was demanding complete liberalization of Pakistani imports. Pakistan is willing to import everything that is needed for its economic development but cannot liberalize consumer goods imports. The developed countries are becoming increasingly protectionist (e.g. shoes and textiles) but the IMF is demanding that Pakistan simply open up its market.
President Carter said he found that illogical.
Henry Owen told the President that he had talked to Ghulam Ishaq before the meeting but said that if the United States were to intervene with IMF Director LaRosiere, it would be counter productive.
President Carter emphasized that we are anxious to cooperate on debt relief.
Ghulam Ishaq reminded the President that there is now a negative resource flow from Pakistan back to the United States. Debt repayments are running at about $134 million. The facility being arranged with the Fund is for three years but the American commitment is only for one. This makes it very hard for the Pakistanis to plan.
President Carter said that it was difficult for us to make a three-year commitment but he would look into it.
Ghulam Ishaq said that he was less interested in getting a legal commitment out of the United States than an understanding.
President Carter instructed Henry Owen to give him a memo on the subject.
[Page 1064]Henry Owen said that he would examine the situation as soon as the IMF agreement had been finalized.
President Carter reiterated that we want to be helpful. He noted that it was time to go out to meet the press. He expressed pleasure with the meeting and said that he and President Zia had agreed to stay in communication. The US and Pakistan, he said, have so many things in common—their goals, friends, adversaries, commitments to human considerations, and security interests. The cooperation between the two countries is not a one-way street; it is mutually advantageous.
President Carter observed that in the past the two countries have not communicated well enough. He said that he now understands Pakistani sensibilities better; his comprehension of this had been inadequate before. President Carter also observed that our budgetary processes, with their long lead-time, made for misunderstandings.
President Zia said that he was very grateful for the meeting. The Pakistani side is going away with the idea that President Carter wants to see US-Pakistani relations develop on their own merits.
President Carter agreed that this is crucial.
President Zia said that US-Pakistani friendship had been confirmed; Pakistan hopes for more economic assistance from the US. He wished President Carter success in the election and said that he hoped to be dealing with “President” Carter in the coming years.
President Carter concluded the meeting with an expression of personal best wishes for Begum Zia and Zian. He said he would pray for Zian’s health. He presented President Zia with copies of Why Not the Best4 and a book of satellite photographs. He noted that this kind of use of space was beneficial for development and that LANDSAT coverage is available to other countries. He also thanked Zia for the roses that had been sent for his birthday.
President Zia said he was a great collector of books and expressed his appreciation.
Thereupon at 12:05 the meeting ended and the two presidents went to meet with the press.5
- Source: Carter Library, National Security Affairs, Brzezinski Material, Subject File, Box 38, Memcons: President: 8–11/80. Secret. The meeting took place in the Cabinet Room.↩
- See Document 465.↩
- In telegram Secto 8041 from USUN, September 30, Muskie reported his September 29 meeting with Shahi in New York. The discussion focused on the Iran-Iraq conflict and Pakistani-Soviet relations. (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, D800466–0445) After the meeting, they discussed the question of European assistance to the Afghan rebels. For an account of the discussion, see Foreign Relations, 1977–1980, vol. XII, Afghanistan, Document 321.↩
- Jimmy Carter, Why Not the Best (Nashville: Broadman Press, 1975, 1977).↩
- For Carter and Zia’s remarks to the press, see Public Papers: Carter, 1980–81, Book III, pp. 2055–2057.↩