Tab A
Memorandum of Conversation
3
SUBJECT
- Djibouti: Views on Ogaden Conflict; Development Needs; Refugee
Problem
PARTICIPANTS
-
Djibouti
-
Hassan Gouled,
President
- Foreign Minister Mr. Abdallah Kamil
- Ambassador to Paris Ahmed Ibrahim
-
US
- Acting Secretary Christopher
- Mr. Moose
- Mr. Post
- Mr. Toumayan, Interpreter
Mr. Christopher welcomed
President Gouled on behalf of
Secretary Vance who was on the
way back to Washington and wished Mr. Christopher to convey his welcome. Mr. Christopher was particularly happy to
greet President Gouled since we
were aware of the long struggle he had been involved in so intimately
which culminated in Djibouti’s independence.4 This must
be a source of pride and satisfaction to you. Mr. Christopher said that the United
States would do all it could to help Djibouti. He expressed his pleasure
that President Gouled would be
visiting Vice President Mondale
on whom the President relies heavily for a variety of matters, foreign
and domestic. Mr. Christopher
expressed the hope that President Carter will be able to say hello during President
Gouled’s call on the Vice
President, but Mr. Carter’s
schedule is very full and Mr. Christopher wanted to emphasize the importance the US
attaches to the meeting between President Gouled and Vice President Mondale. He expressed his concern over the fighting in
the Ogaden which was causing instability in the area and difficulties
for Djibouti at the outset of its independent life. He noted that the US
has tried to follow a neutral role by not supplying either party,
instead giving support to the OAU in
its efforts to reach a solution.
President Gouled expressed his
pleasure at being in Washington to greet the leaders and people of the
city and looked forward to his meeting with Vice President Mondale, with whom he hoped to discuss
a number of problems. He said that it would be an added pleasure to meet
President Carter if only very
briefly. With reference to the long [Page 72] period of struggle for Djibouti’s independence. He
noted that it is certain that Djibouti will advocate peace in the region
and in the world. While the Republic of Djibouti is small and young, it
does not lack a certain importance potentially especially with regard to
the Bab-e-Mandeb5 visit. Djibouti
hoped to contribute to equilibrium in the area through neutrality.
However, the Republic of Djibouti is like a new child unable to walk. It
needs the material means and support to progress. As for the conflict in
the area, Djibouti is certainly concerned, having some 10,000 refugees
from the conflict, with the railroad cut off for over three months, and
with the port not having been functioning all that time—all of this
gives Djibouti social and economic problems in great proportions. For
humanitarian reasons, Djibouti cannot refuse access to its territory for
the elderly and for children.
As for the Ogaden conflict, President Gouled said that the conflict is serious as Mr.
Christopher is aware. It’s a
problem which must be solved by the great powers. Djibouti did not have
the means for solving it, being able to [have] only a moral influence
towards equilibrium. On moral grounds, nobody likes war, but certain
great powers are fueling the fires by supplying defensive and offensive
arms. That he described as the popular opinion.
Mr. Christopher reiterated the US
position of neutrality and restraint from supplying arms. He also
underscored US support for the OAU in
its mediation efforts. He expressed understanding that the most Djibouti
could do is provide an example of peace. He asked where the refugees
were coming from.
Turning first to the question of neutrality towards the conflict,
President Gouled said that the
arms involved come from the big powers. There is of course no neutrality
among Djibouti’s neighbors, and all of Africa has been corrupted by
supplies of arms. There is therefore no reason to seek mediation from
Africans. He noted that many of the weapons used in Africa come from the
West. He asserted that there [are] too many arms in Africa. Therefore
there is a need for a high level decision to cut the flow of arms to
Africa. He expressed his awareness that the United States is not
supplying arms in the conflict in the Ogaden, but rather the Soviets are
to both sides. He expressed a conviction that big power intervention to
end the conflict was more likely to succeed than efforts by the OAU.
As to the refugees, most came by rail from the area between Djibouti and
Dire Dawa. When he left Djibouti he understood the number to be 6,500.
The day before yesterday he telephoned to Djibouti and [Page 73] learned that there were an additional 3,000.
They all enter from Ethiopia. If there were any coming from the Somali
side, President Gouled said that
Djibouti would not have accepted them.
Mr. Christopher said the mention
of the refugees called to mind Djibouti’s need for economic aid. He
noted US awareness of Djibouti’s historic ties to France. He said that
the US understands that a number of Arab states are interested in
helping. He said that the US also wants to be of assistance. He said
that the AID people in Washington are
considering the matter and the Food for Peace people have recently
visited Djibouti. Concerning refugees, the US will work through the
UNHCR, being conscious of the
burden the refugees place on Djibouti.
President Gouled expressed his
thanks and added that the Djibouti delegation had several formulations
to present on refugees, on the country’s agricultural potential and
sub-soil potential, rather than being just a service-oriented country as
in the past. President Gouled
observed that the fact that Djibouti has French and Arab friends and has
chosen neutrality and has signed agreements with France leaves no doubt
as to Djibouti’s orientation. He thanked Mr. Christopher for US willingness to
share in the friendship that Djibouti offers to all.
The Foreign Minister, Kamil, who is also Minister of Cooperation,
produced some papers on the problem of refugees and development needs of
Djibouti and said that Djibouti’s needs were urgent. Mr. Christopher noted that it would be
most appropriate to discuss these matters in detail with Mr. Gilligan.
Minister Kamil noted that their presentation did not go into any detail
as to what mechanism should be used to meet their needs, that is PL–480, budgetary assistance or
whatever, but was simply a presentation of their problems. He hoped it
would be possible for them to have answers before they leave on
Wednesday.6
