Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964–1968, Volume XXX, China

106. Memorandum of Conversation¹

Washington, September 23, 1965, 11:45 a.m.

PARTICIPANTS

• U.S.
  • The President
  • Mr. William Bundy, Dept. of State
  • Mr. Chester L. Cooper, White House
  • Mr. Calvin E. Mehlert, Interpreter
• Republic of China
  • General Chiang
  • Ambassador Chou
  • Minister Shen

General Chiang presented a letter from Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek (attached).²

The President expressed his pleasure at having recently seen Mme. Chiang Kai-shek and recalled with pleasure his visit to Taiwan in 1961.

General Chiang noted that he had had useful conversations with Secretaries McNamara and Rusk and Messrs. William and McGeorge Bundy.³ He said that President Chiang was especially interested to learn from the President what U.S. policy is in the Far East and in what way the Republic of China can help the U.S.

The President expressed appreciation for what the Chinese have already done and the example they have set in the area. He informed the General that the U.S. is proceeding with a military buildup in Vietnam which we think can arrest the present dangers and, at the same time, avoid provoking an all-out war in the Far East.

The reports of the past month give us reason for cautious optimism. The results during the monsoon season were especially encouraging. The U.S. plans to stay in Vietnam until the aggression stops. There are some people who feel the U.S. should undertake unlimited military measures, but the Government feels that this will result in increasing the help being given to the other side and that this would be unwise. On the other hand, there are some who feel that the U.S. should pull out altogether. The U.S. does not plan to pursue either of these extreme courses.

The President indicated his pleasure with the UN-initiated cease-fire in the Indian-Pakistan dispute. We will do everything appropriate to encourage them to negotiate their differences. The Chinese Communists, for their part, have done a great deal of talking in the past week or so, but have not acted, and they have probably lost a great deal of prestige in many quarters.

There promises to be difficulties in the UN on the China question, but Ambassador Goldberg thinks it will come out satisfactorily. The President hoped that all countries would hesitate to reward Peiping for their conduct in the last several days, but one never knows how other countries feel about such questions.

The President asked General Chiang to tell President Chiang that we appreciate all the GRC has done in support of our common objectives and that the U.S. remains a loyal ally of the Republic of China.

The President expressed his high regard for President Chiang and his hopes for close collaboration with him. He once again expressed his admiration for Madame Chiang.

General Chiang said that his Government joined the U.S. in the desire to avoid general war in Asia. The basic question is how “to reduce or, if it is possible, to destroy Chinese Communist power without a general war.” He had discussed this with Messrs. Rusk and McNamara and had raised a number of proposals for a coordinated U.S.-GRC effort. The General emphasized that this question was the essence of President Chiang’s message to President Johnson.

General Chiang also noted that he had been asked to pass on the Generalissimo’s belief that the Chinese Communists would not intervene “massively” in Vietnam or on the Indian sub-continent. Instead, they will try to create turmoil through “revolutionary warfare” all over the world. These tactics can last a long time and will dissipate U.S. strength and efforts. They could have more dangerous implications for the U.S. than massive intervention. He felt our common effort should be a long-term one. There is a need for continued joint study. Although we may differ in our interpretations, we should have common objectives.

The meeting concluded at 12:15 with an exchange of gifts (an autographed picture and some books from the President; two porcelain plates with portraits of the President and his family from General Chiang). The President then took General Chiang into the press lobby.

1. Source: Department of State, Central Files, POL CHINAT-US. Secret. No drafter appears on the source text, but it was drafted on September 24, and approved in the White House by Thomson on October 22. The meeting was held in the President’s Office at the White House.
2. Not found attached to the source text. The text was transmitted to Taipei in telegram 354, October 6. (Ibid., POL 15–1 CHINAT)
3. Records of Chiang’s September 22 meetings with Rusk and William Bundy are in the Johnson Library, National Security File, Country File, China, Vol. IV. A record of a September 24 meeting with McNamara is ibid. A record of a September 23 meeting with Harriman is in Department of State, Central Files, POL CHICOM-USSR. A record of a September 27 meeting with McNaughton is in Washington National Records Center, RG 330, OSD Files: FRC 70 A 1266.