31. Summary of Meeting1
SUMMARY OF MEETING BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND SENATOR DIRKSEN IN CABINET ROOM, SEPTEMBER 24, 1968
Senator Dirksen reported to the President that he had had a call from Richard Nixon and also Bryce Harlow reporting that they had heard that John McCone and General Taylor were going to try to push the Paris Conference with Vietnam or North Vietnam—push along for a conclusion that might be regarded as something of a sellout.
The President reported that neither of them had made such a recommendation, and that he considered General Taylor a “pillar of strength” and he would never make a recommendation that he did not consider reasonably strong. He told Dirksen that he had not talked with McCone since he left.
The President went on to say:
“I have taken the position that we are not going to stop the bombing so long as it would endanger American lives to do so. And another [Page 78] way of putting it, which is very offensive to them, and we Don’t want to use that word to try to get an agreement. We want to stop the killing the first moment we can without reciprocity.”
[Page 79]The President told Dirksen that we have said in effect to that that the bombing will be stopped if we have good reasons to believe and we have satisfied ourselves that the DMZ matters can be cleared up that won’t pour men across it, won’t use this period to shell the cities, and that they get down to substantive discussions.
The President told Dirksen he had told Nixon and Humphrey these things and they were on their own. He said from Nixon’s experience in the Senate and Vice President—and also the same thing to Humphrey—that they ought to know Lyndon Johnson well enough to know that he is going to do what he thinks he ought to do. That’s why he made the March decision. He didn’t think he could do it as a candidate.
The President said:
“Now after January 20th if you are President you’ll be in charge and then if you want to sell out or pull out or go in or do whatever you want to, you can do it. I will work with any President and try to help him and sympathize with him and pray for him because I think they’re being very cruel to their country and to their boys out there by all of these talks back and forth.”
The President told Senator Dirksen:
“Generally speaking, the Republicans have not been a problem on the war. They did quote every morning folks here. They’ve been quoting Goldberg here lately every morning. They want to stop the bombing. They do quote every fellow that says something about stopping the bombing—Mansfield every day. They Don’t quote Dirksen. They Don’t quote Tower. They Don’t quote Nixon. They just say Nixon’s no good. He’s just like Johnson. The columnists I’m talking about.”
Dirksen said:
“You see, in Nixon’s concern that had he stood in your corner that he hasn’t relented either, that if the rug was pulled out from under him he just wouldn’t like it.”
The President told Dirksen that he had told Nixon he was going to treat him and Humphrey just alike as far as foreign policy was concerned. He said he would work and vote for Humphrey, but he was not going to do anything to cause one Republican to be angry with him on foreign policy. He assured Dirksen he wanted to treat Nixon just exactly like Eisenhower2 had treated him, and he wanted to treat Humphrey in the same way.
Dirksen told the President that Nixon had told him to assure the President for him that his and the President’s relationship will be just like he has announced and it will continue that way and he can bet all the tea in China on that.
President Johnson said:
“I am getting criticism on not hitting Nixon. Now I Don’t want to be a hypocrite at all. I want Humphrey to win just like you want Nixon to win. On the other hand, I want Communism defeated in Southeast Asia and this country more than I want anybody to win and that’s why I took myself out of it March 31st.”
The President told Dirksen he disagreed heartily with Nixon on nonproliferation; that that was not for Russia’s benefit—that’s for our benefit. He felt that when we delay we wind up with Germany and Israel and the rest of them not going along and that in his judgment history will treat them very badly.
The President assured Dirksen that we were trying very hard with the Russians, with the North Vietnamese, with every other neutral power we could in order to bring this war to a stop where we could stop killing boys. He said he was not going to do anything that’s political with it and that he was going just as far the other way.
The President said:
“When I go back home I Don’t want to be active in the Government. What I do want to do is to have the confidence, the respect, and if I can, the affection of whoever is President because this man needs every help he can get and I will say this. I have never said a mean word about Eisenhower. I stood up for him.
“I have been paid back with ten percent interest for my investment and patriotism and non-partisanship by your conduct.
“I got a letter from Agnew on July 28th of this year—one month before the Convention—and he said: ‘Within the obligation that I have to my Party, I’m going to cooperate and support you every way I can because you’re my President and you need help and that means foreign policy and domestic.’ It couldn’t have been better if it had been from my Mother. You’ve never seen me say an ugly word about the man because I think he’s sincere and genuine. Now I think if I were both candidates I wouldn’t get into the war too much, tactics and strategy. I would just say—well, we want a change. We are not going to spend too much money and we’re going to try to give you better Government. Just like you win your Senators up there and Congressmen up there. The new type is to do it on issues. And I think Nixon has been doing that pretty well. Once in a while he says the old man or something like that, but I’m not having anything to do with it.”
[Page 80]The President told Dirksen that he was free to tell Nixon and also Ford what had been said in their meeting—that he hoped he would.