Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961–1963, Volume XXIII, Southeast Asia

392. Memorandum of Conversation⁰

Washington, November 26, 1963, 10:30 a.m.

SUBJECT

1.

United States-Philippine Relations

2.

Indonesia

PARTICIPANTS

• United States
  • The President
  • Governor W. Averell Harriman, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs
  • Mr. Roger Hilsman, Assistant Secretary of State for Far Eastern Affairs
  • Mr. Angier Biddle Duke, Chief of Protocol
• The Philippines
  • President Diosdado Macapagal
  • Ambassador Amelito R. Mutuc
  • Executive Secretary to the President Rufino Hechanova
  • Col. Dizon, Military Aide to the President

After an exchange of pleasantries, President Macapagal mentioned his proposed visit to the United States. He had intended to come after the completion of the Philippine elections, but he had come now to express the Philippine national feeling of sorrow and to assure President Johnson of their high regard for him.¹ President Johnson could count on the Philippines and the Philippine people always to be ready to stand by the side of the United States.

President Johnson raised the question of the Indonesia–Malaysia dispute and Philippine recognition of Malaysia, emphasizing his feeling that the Filipinos could be of great help; that it was perhaps better for the United States to stay in the background on this issue.

President Macapagal said that on recognition the Filipinos were always ready to recognize Malaysia; that there was no animosity whatsoever towards Malaysia. The question was one of implementing the Manila Agreements and concerned only procedure. The Tunku wished to have recognition first and then implementation of the Manila Agreements. The Filipinos thought the procedure should be the other way round. However, President Macapagal wanted to assure President Johnson that they regarded recognition as an opportunity to bring Indonesia and Malaysia together.

The President inquired whether Sukarno was planning a visit to Manila.

President Macapagal said that Sukarno had asked about the possibility of a visit November 28th, and Macapagal had asked that it be taken up with his Foreign Office. President Macapagal said that they looked at the problem in the following way. First, the Philippines shared a heritage of common ideals with the United States and their over-all purpose was to further our joint objectives. As the United States Ambassador had once said, Asians can do things that the United States cannot do, and President Macapagal saw the Philippine role in just this way. Since Indonesia is a close neighbor of the Philippines and since it is large, it must be kept out of Communist control. Sukarno and the Indonesians were now bewildered about the situation—they didn’t know quite what to do. It had been Macapagal’s experience that whenever the Indonesians and Sukarno were pushed to the wall they turned to the Communists. They did this during the Sumatra revolt and again during the West New Guinea troubles. The Filipinos feel that they can do something to keep the Indonesians from being pushed to the wall on this issue. The Philippines can be a window for Sukarno to look at the West and for the West to look at Indonesia. Sukarno is, in fact, interested in moving towards the West—of this President Macapagal is convinced—and there has been a change in Sukarno’s attitude in this respect. In the Manila Agreements, for example, Sukarno agreed not to permit foreign bases in Indonesia. President Macapagal said that his interest was in bringing Indonesia along towards the West. However, he wanted to assure President Johnson that, if this turned out to be impossible, the Filipinos would withdraw from association with Indonesia and join in the recognition of Malaysia. President Macapagal said Sukarno had sent Subandrio to tell him that Sukarno was willing to meet with the Tunku at any time. In President Macapagal’s opinion, the problem was now the Tunku. He felt that the West should put pressure on the British to let the Tunku meet with the other two countries.

President Johnson reiterated that he felt that this situation presented a great opportunity for the Philippines to exercise leadership and that it would be a great achievement for us all if the Philippines could bring Indonesia into friendly relations with its neighbors.²

0. Source: Department of State, Central Files, POL PHIL–US. Confidential. Drafted by Hilsman and approved in the White House on December 2. The meeting was held at the White House.
1. President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas on November 22.
2. Macapagal also met with Secretary Rusk at the Shoreham Hotel at 3:15 p.m. on November 27. They discussed the intentions of the Soviet Union, North Vietnam, and the People’s Republic of China in Asia and the conflict over Malaysia. (Memorandum of conversation, November 27; Department of State, EA/Philippine Files: Lot 66 D 502, POL 7 Visits and Meetings, Pres Macapagal)