153. Memorandum of Conversation0
SUBJECT
- Indonesia
PARTICIPANTS
- The Hon. R.G. Casey, Australian Minister for External Affairs
- The Hon. Howard Beale, Australian Ambassador
- Mr. J. Plimsoll, Assistant Secretary, Dept. of External Affairs
- Mr. Malcolm Booker, Counselor, Australian Embassy
- The Secretary
- Mr. Robertson, Assistant Secretary for Far Eastern Affairs
- Mr. Mein, Director, Office of Southwest Pacific Affairs
Minister Casey said that the Australians were exercised over the threats to West New Guinea. He said they do not believe that the Indonesians are likely to use force to get West New Guinea within the next six to twelve months but that there was genuine anxiety in Australia as to what might happen beyond that period. The Dutch have asked the Australian Government for assurances of support in case of an Indonesian attack against West New Guinea. The Australians have given them no such assurances although they have discussed with the Dutch all aspects of the problem. When the Dutch raise the issue, Mr. Casey said, the Australians pass it off by pointing out the danger of leaks and suggest other deterrents to the use of force. The United States is in the best position to exercise the most effective deterrent by placing conditions on any economic or military aid it might extend to Indonesia. The Minister asked whether it would be possible for the U.S. to inform the Indonesians that it plans within the next 18 months to give additional aid to Indonesia but only on condition that they will not use force against West New Guinea. Such conditions could be stated privately, but it would be preferable if they could be made public.
Minister Casey said he had spent two days in Ottawa in talks with Prime Minister Diefenbaker. He had asked the Prime Minister if while in New Delhi in the course of his forthcoming visit to several countries in the area he would talk to Prime Minister Nehru in an effort to get Nehru to exercise some moderating influence on Sukarno. Prime Minister Diefenbaker agreed to do that. Minister Casey thought this would be helpful since Canada has good relations with India and Diefenbaker apparently hit it off well with Nehru at the Prime Ministers’ Conference.
[Page 280]Short of that, Minister Casey said there did not appear to be any deterrent to the use of force by Indonesia to obtain possession of West New Guinea. Sukarno is a fanatic and may not under any conditions be deterred. The Australian position is that they have supported the Dutch in the UN and that since they have been influential in preventing any Indonesian resolution from getting a two-thirds majority they feel an obligation to the Dutch and would find it difficult not to support the Dutch in this case. The Australian Government is aware, however, that should it give support to the Dutch in case of an Indonesian attack against West New Guinea the firing of the first Australian shot would cancel out all Australian influence not only in Indonesia but in all of Asia. The Asian countries, whether they agree with the merits of the Indonesian claim or not, would certainly support Indonesia in such a case. The Minister thought this would be true even of the Philippines. He said that on the basis of private conversations they had reason to believe Serrano agrees with the Australia-Dutch position but in public he must take a different stand.
The Secretary commented that the issue here is the same as that of the offshore islands in that Indonesia claims that West New Guinea is part of Indonesia and therefore wishes to liberate it. The Secretary said that he did not think there is any fear of Indonesia taking West New Guinea by force unless Indonesia falls under communist control. They make speeches and so on for public consumption but we do not believe their intentions are to use force. We feel that if they get a moderate amount of arms from us we may be in a position to influence them. Out of the revolutionary situation which developed there during the early part of the year there seems to have emerged an apparent willingness on the part of the armed forces to work with us and to take steps against the communist threat. The situation there has worked out not too badly.
Minister Casey said there was no question in the Australian mind concerning the sale by the United States of arms for internal security. The Secretary commented that any attack against West New Guinea would, of course, be disastrous and that we would throw our force against such an attack. He said we do not have Congressional authorization to do so but some way could be found if such developed. Minister Casey wondered if there were any sanctions which we could apply to prevent such development. The Secretary commented that there were many things we could do, such as economic sanctions. If Congress were in session we could of course get authorization if necessary for the use of force. Ambassador Beale commented that the important thing, however, is that on these issues we must take the position that force cannot be used to reach settlement. A world opinion supporting this position must be created.
[Page 281]Ambassador Beale referred to the assurances obtained by the U.S. from the Indonesians in connection with the sale of military equipment and pointed out that we had not gotten a specific reply from the Indonesians on this point. Mr. Robertson said that the legal people in the Department feel that the assurances given us do cover the use of the arms for an attack against West New Guinea. Ambassador Jones also feels that he has obtained the necessary assurances. The Secretary commented that it might help if further discussions on this issue take place to have more explicit assurances.
The Secretary said he wished to comment on Minister Casey’s referring to Sukarno as a fanatic. In his opinion Sukarno is not a fanatic in the same sense as Syngman Rhee, Chiang Kai-shek and Nasser, but rather a schemer, and a smooth and adroit politician.
Mr. Casey in departing reiterated that although the Dutch were most anxious to have a formal commitment from the Australian Government to come to their assistance in case of an armed attack against West New Guinea he wanted us to know that he had not given them such assurances. The Secretary commented that he would not have objected had the Australians given the Dutch such assurances.1