Department of State Atomic Energy Files
Minutes of the Meeting of the Combined Policy Committee at the Department of State, September 20, 1949, 2:30 p. m.
top secret
Present: Members:
- The Under Secretary of State, Mr. Webb (in the Chair) as alternate for the Secretary of State
- William Webster, as alternate for the Secretary of Defense Sumner Pike, Acting Chairman AEC, as alternate for Mr. Lilienthal
- The British Ambassador, Sir Oliver Franks
- Sir Derick Hoyer Millar
- Mr. C. D. Howe
- By Invitation:
- United States
- United Kingdom
- Canada
- Secretariat:
I. Minutes
The Committee approved the Minutes of its July 7, 1948 meeting.10
II. Resignations and Appointments
The Committee accepted and approved the resignations and new appointments recorded in the Joint Secretariat paper attached as Tab A.11
Mr. Webb paid tribute to Mr. Arthur Storke,12 who recently lost his life in an airplane crash, Mr. Webb stated that while he had never known Mr. Storke personally, he had become aware of the value of his contributions to the joint efforts, especially in the crucial field of raw material procurement, in which his extra-ordinary technical competence as a mining engineer combined with his uncompromising integrity and impartial devotion to the fulfillment of his CDA duties, had won him the respect and admiration of his American colleagues. Sir Oliver Franks and Mr. Howe stated that they wished to associate themselves with the sentiments that had been expressed by Mr. Webb.
III. Future Arrangements Between the U.S., U.K., and Canada in the Field of Atomic Energy
Mr. Webb expressed on behalf of the American Members of the Committee their pleasure at the opportunity to sit down with their British and Canadian colleagues to explore what might be a sensible arrangement to govern future relations among the three countries in the field of atomic energy. He hoped that the talks could be completely forthright and afford, in the first instance, a full exchange of views in order that all concerned might proceed on the basis of all the facts and a full understanding of the various points of view. He alluded to the fact that recent talks in other fields among the three countries [Page 531] had been characterized by a pattern of give and take, which had been most fruitful. He hoped that this pattern might again develop in these talks.
Mr. Webb stated that from the point of view of the American members, there were certain salient factors to be kept in mind. He thought it might be useful at the outset if these points could be made as initial guides, at least to American thinking on this subject. He summarized these factors as follows:
- 1.
- Our basic objective is to work out mutually satisfactory arrangements to govern our future relationships in the atomic energy field.
- 2.
- Owing to the necessity of future consultations with the Congress, which will not be possible until early next year, our first problem is to determine whether the United Kingdom and Canada would be agreeable to an extension of the allocation and technical cooperation arrangements in substantially their present form under the modus vivendi, until these arrangements can be replaced by a longer term agreement.
- 3.
- As to longer term arrangements, the following aspects must be kept
in mind:
- a.
- Any arrangement that involves expanded exchange of information will require Congressional action in one form or another.
- b.
- This requirement probably means public disclosure of any future agreement, at least in general terms, if it provides for a fuller exchange of information.
- c.
- Accordingly, such arrangements to be viable must have the support of public opinion in the three countries.
- d.
- With the advent of the North Atlantic Pact and the projected Military Aid Program, a pattern of cooperation is emerging among the countries involved having, as a fundamental principle, that allocation of effort in the common defense which makes the most efficient contribution to the total program. The United States hopes that these exploratory talks on atomic energy matters will produce a result, as among the U.S., the U.K. and Canada, which is fully consistent with that principle.
- e.
- We are anxious to know with greater precision the scope and objectives of British plans in that atomic energy field. For its part, the United States has under active consideration an expanded program of weapons production which is deemed necessary for the national security. The proposed expansion, which is not large in terms of a percentage increase in capital investment, will give large returns in terms of weapons output. It will require continued large quantities of raw materials. The United States regards as vital the assurance of a raw materials supply sufficient to feed this expanded program. The United States considers that the expanded program will bring about the most efficient possible conversion of raw materials into weapons in the shortest space of time.
- f.
- In the light of the foregoing, our exploratory talks will seek to determine a mutually satisfactory long-term arrangement among the three countries which is best calculated to increase our collective strength in the field of atomic weapons. In our view, [Page 532] production and storage facilities should be located with due regard for strategic considerations. The best interests of the joint defense require that the major production effort be located in this country. The allocation of raw material and a fuller exchange of information should reflect this basic consideration and foster the most efficient division of effort. In order that we may proceed with all the facts before us, the U.K. and Canadian representatives are invited to state their views.
- g.
- In working out a satisfactory relationship among the three countries, it will be necessary also to decide upon a common policy with respect to non-CPC countries. The United States is not disposed to include other countries, to any appreciable extent, in the information exchange program which may be worked out among the CPC countries. It sees grave dangers in so doing, with little to be gained in terms of enhancing the common defense.
Sir Oliver Franks welcomed the expression of views which the Chairman had put forward. He stated that these ideas would be given the most careful thought, and inasmuch as it had not been possible to consider these points beforehand, he suggested that it might be useful if the text of these main items could be made available for further study. The ideas expressed by Mr. Webb were quite far-reaching in nature and would require some further thought before he would be in a position to give his reaction. It was agreed that the American Member of the Joint Secretariat should make copies of the points that had been made by Mr. Webb available to his British and Canadian colleagues.
Sir Oliver went on to say with regard to the modus vivendi, the continuation of which in some suitable form Mr. Webb had alluded to, that it was based on recognition by Canada, the U.K., and the United States of each other’s atomic energy programs. It included an allocation arrangement under which the United States received all the Belgian Congo uranium for a two-year period. In return, machinery was set up whereby the United Kingdom could be given classified information in nine specified areas. The information part of the modus vivendi had perhaps been the least satisfactory for the reasons that (a) the machinery by which the United Kingdom obtained information was very slow and cumbersome, (b) several of the areas of cooperation had never been cleared in that the United States had not agreed to exchange information falling in those areas, and (c) in one or two areas that had been cleared, there had in fact been no exchange of information. In sum, therefore, the modus vivendi was like the curate’s egg, “good in parts.”
Therefore, the question raised by Mr. Webb of a temporary extension of the modus vwendi might best be considered after the exploratory conversations had proceeded some distance with a review of the whole field. Sir Oliver stated that the United Kingdom Government [Page 533] felt that it was in the joint interest to bring about the fullest possible cooperation and exchange of information between Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States, and that it was their aim in these talks to accomplish this end. One subject which would have to be discussed during the talks in connection with tripartite relations would be the question of the relations of the three countries with other countries in this field, particularly those nations comprising the Commonwealth and those in Western Europe.
Mr. Howe stated that Canada’s position in the field of atomic energy was well known. Canada had no plans for military use of atomic energy. Her materials and facilities were employed for purposes of research only, and everything that Canada had accomplished in this field had been passed on to her associates. In addition, Canada was an important source of raw material. This material had never been subject to allocation by the Combined Development Agency but had been supplied by Canada to the country that from time to time was in a position to use it most effectively. Canada had no desire to change this arrangement, unless as an outcome of the present discussions it would be found that some other disposition appeared desirable in the common interest. With regard to the information which Canada had received under the present modus vivendi, Canada had no complaint. It was felt that the information that had come to Canada had been put to good use. While more information could have been used to advantage, perhaps there was some benefit and gain from the fact which had made it necessary for Canadian scientists to work out many problems for themselves.
After expressing appreciation for the views that had been advanced around the table, Mr. Webb suggested that the Committee agree on the subgroups that might be named to carry on the exploratory talks. He put forward as a tentative suggestion a proposal that three subgroups be selected in the first instance, namely the subgroups on strategic and military considerations, on raw materials supply requirements, and on exchange of information. He suggested that two other subgroups might have to be named subsequently, namely one on intelligence cooperation and another on form of agreement, but that these might well be left to a later stage. This proposal was agreeable to the British and Canadian Members and the following membership was named:
strategic and military consideration subgroup
United States
- Mr. Kennan
- General Burns
- General Norstad
- General Nichols
- Mr. Wilson
United Kingdom
- Sir Roger Makins
- Sir Derick Hoyer Millar13
- Sir John Cockcroft
- Gen. Sir Wm. Morgan
- Sir Oliver Franks
Canada
- Mr. Hume Wrong
- Air Vice Marshal Millar
- Dr. Mackenzie
- Mr. Ignatieff
- Mr. Solandt
raw materials supply and requirements subgroup
United States
- Mr. Wilson
- General Nichols
United Kingdom
- Mr. Peirson
- Sir John Cockcroft
Canada
- Mr. Ignatieff
- W. J. Bennett
exchange of information subgroup
United States
- Dr. Bacher
- Adm. Parsons
United Kingdom
- Sir John Cockcroft
Canada
- Dr. Mackenzie
- Dr. Lewis
- Dr. Laurence
It was recognized that it might be desirable to add additional members from time to time to these various subgroups and that each country should feel free to do so.
In discussing time schedules, Sir Oliver expressed the hope that the matter at hand could be dealt with expeditiously and that it might be possible for the Committee to meet again in about a week’s time. He pointed out that a number of the people on the British side who had come over for the talks would find it necessary to return before long, and he hoped that a good deal of ground could be covered while they were all available. Mr. Wrong also expressed the hope that it might [Page 535] be possible to have another meeting of the Committee within a week’s time. Mr. Webb stated that he hoped the talks would not be too hurried, but that they could be carried on as expeditiously as possible.
It was left to the Secretariat to make the necessary arrangements for getting various working groups together and to arrange suitable facilities.
IV. Publicity
Sir Oliver Franks stated that the United Kingdom was giving out a press release precisely along the lines of that which was contemplated by the United States. A slight change in language was necessary in the last paragraph but no change of substance was involved. The press release given out by the United States is attached as Tab B and that by the British as Tab C.14
V. Miscellaneous
Sir Oliver Franks inquired whether the United Kingdom might be informed of the outcome of the meeting between Belgian Foreign Minister VanZeeland and the Secretary of State on September 16, 1949. The Chairman asked the American Member of the Joint Secretariat to make available the substance of that conversation to the British and Canadian members.15
- R. Gordon Arneson
- F. W. Marten
- G[eorge] Ignatieff
These Minutes were approved by the Committee on August 27, 1951.
- Rear Adm. William S. Parsons, Member of the Military Liaison Committee to the United States Atomic Energy Commission.↩
- Dr. Robert F. Bacher, nuclear physicist at the California Institute of Technology; Consultant to the United States Atomic Energy Commission; Member of the Commission, 1946–May 1949.↩
- Dr. W. A. Macfarlane, Attaché, British Embassy in the United States.↩
- A. K. Longair, Attaché, British Embassy in the United States.↩
- Commander, British Army Staff, Washington; Army Member of the Joint Staff Mission.↩
- The Canadian Ambassador in the United States.↩
- President of the National Research Council and Atomic Energy Control Board of Canada.↩
- First Secretary, British Embassy in the United States.↩
- Counselor, Canadian Embassy in the United States.↩
- For text, see Foreign Relations, 1948, vol. i, Part 2, p. 723.↩
- Not printed.↩
- Former President of the Climax Molybdenum Company and British Member of the Combined Development Agency.↩
- Minister, British Embassy in the United States.↩
- Tabs B and C are not reproduced.↩
- See footnote 1, p. 526.↩