Foreign Relations of the United States: Diplomatic Papers, 1945, Europe, Volume IV

851.00/8–2245

Memorandum of Conversations at the White House on August 22, 1945, Between President Truman and General de Gaulle⁸⁷

August 22, 1945, 3:30 p.m.

The President had two conversations at the White House with General de Gaulle on August 22. The first conversation was held in the afternoon following de Gaulle’s arrival, and the second after dinner that evening. The following persons were present at both conversations:

• M. Bidault
• Secretary Byrnes
• Admiral Leahy
• Ambassador Bonnet
• Ambassador Caffery

The first conversation was devoted to a general discussion of French economic conditions, with particular reference to the possibility of cooperation on the part of the United States, with the view of bettering the economic situation. The President asked General de Gaulle about the French coal situation; told him of his real concern about the coal shortage in Europe and reviewed the steps which the United States Government has taken to endeavor to improve the situation.

General de Gaulle replied by outlining the progress which has already been made to increase French coal production, which he said at present is about two-thirds of pre-war production. He explained the difficulties which the French have had to overcome to achieve this level of production and mentioned the lack of transport, the lack of pit props, the fact that French miners have been dispersed throughout France and Germany, the low calorie content of the diet of the French people which resulted in a decreased output of the mines, and the wornout condition of much mining machinery and equipment. He said that, while he is optimistic over the possibility of further increasing French coal production to the pre-war level, this will take a considerable time and will necessitate certain assistance.

The President and the Secretary expressed to General de Gaulle the desire of the United States to aid France to increase coal production, and said that French requests for mining machinery and equipment should obtain a top priority. They emphasized that requests for such machinery and equipment should be presented at the earliest possible moment, if they had not already been made known. The President and the Secretary also referred to the directions given to our military authorities that all German miners within the jurisdiction of our military authorities be employed in the mining industry and mentioned that those who are prisoners in the United States are being returned to Germany.

General de Gaulle said the French Government fully approved the directives which the President had sent to General Eisenhower some time ago concerning the exploitation of the German coal mines. He expressed the hope that the British Government, if it had not already done so, would also approve the President’s proposal. He added that for France it was a matter of vital necessity to obtain German coal as reparation.

Before the end of the conversation, the President said that he wished in a friendly way to draw General de Gaulle’s attention to the unfortunate effect which had been produced by a number of unjustified criticisms directed against the United States which had appeared in the French press. He also mentioned that certain American business men had complained that they had been badly received by members of the French Government in Paris when they had gone there in order to endeavor to cooperate with French business and industry.

General de Gaulle and M. Bidault replied that they believed that the information which had been received in the United States concerning press attacks directed against the United States had been very much exaggerated. They also made the point that the French press, which had originated with the Resistance, was still very “jeune”, and that it was often severely critical of the French Government. Both General de Gaulle and M. Bidault said that in reality there was a sentiment of profound affection for the United States and a very real desire to cooperate with the United States, whose generosity toward France was much appreciated.

The second conversation, held in the evening, began with General de Gaulle and M. Bidault making several broad, general statements on some aspects of the political picture in France. In reply to questions, they talked briefly about the forthcoming elections and the policy pursued by the Communist Party.

The German question was then raised by de Gaulle, who said that certain of the decisions taken at Potsdam, where France was not represented, had given rise to an apprehension that the German danger, which had been for the moment eliminated as a result of Germany’s crushing military defeat, would perhaps be reborn at some future time. He mentioned that, while an important part of German territory in the East had been detached from Germany, the Potsdam communiqué⁸⁹ had given no indication that similar measures would be taken on Germany’s western frontier. He said, “The Rhine means for France exactly what a river would mean to the United States which separated the latter from an intermediate, neighboring country equally strong.” He went on to say that all invasions of French territory from the east have always come through the Rhineland and that, therefore, France should have a guarantee that this would not occur in the future. He said that separation of the Rhineland from Germany was a necessary geographic guarantee and that it was also a psychological necessity for the French people.

He also expressed apprehension of certain decisions which had been taken at Potsdam with respect to the administration of Germany which appeared to be a prelude to the reconstruction of a central German authority. He mentioned particularly the proposed Secretaries of State who will be established at Berlin, and added that Prussia had always been the motivating force of German imperialism Should German unity be reestablished, it would be even more dangerous than in the past, because Germany might then be under the influence of a strong and powerful Slav bloc which was now being constituted in eastern Europe.

In reply the President and the Secretary observed that the German danger should not be exaggerated. They said they had recently visited Germany and had seen with their own eyes the extent of the destruction throughout the country. Furthermore, Germany has suffered a very great loss in manpower. With this in mind, and in view of the decisions taken at Potsdam relating to the reduction of German industry to the point where it will only cover the immediate economic needs of the country, the possibility of a new German menace seems somewhat remote.

General de Gaulle, in reply, admitted that Germany had become greatly enfeebled, but also expressed the opinion that, despite the loss of Silesia, a unified Germany would still have an enormous industrial potential if it retained the Ruhr and that, therefore, France was desirous of seeing the Ruhr internationalized. He recalled that after the last war the Allies had also taken steps to assure the disarmament of Germany and the control and limitation of the German military machine. Unfortunately, differences of opinion between the Allies after the end of the last war allowed Germany to escape executing the clauses of the treaty and permitted Germany to regain her military power. He added that there is no absolute guarantee that there will not be future dissensions between the Allied powers, which Germany will take advantage of to regain her strength. De Gaulle said, “The very fact that Germany is weakened makes that country all the more susceptible of becoming the political instrument of other Powers.” He expressed the belief that Germany certainly will be tempted to play such a game.

The President replied that after the last war the Allies had acted unwisely, and that the United States for its part was determined not again to commit the same errors. He observed that after the last war the German war industry was reestablished with the complicity of industrialists of a number of Allied countries. The archives of the Farbenindustrie, which came into our possession, prove the extent of the complicity of British, American and French industrialists. He went on to say that the United States has no intention of financing German reparations as it had done after the last war. Since the United States, and presumably the other Allies, do not intend to commit the same errors, the possibility of the German menace is remote.

The President expressed the view that the best guarantee of French security lay in devoting all of France’s energies to the reconstruction of France, and he assured General de Gaulle that France could count on the friendship of the United States in this task, since the United States strongly desired France to become strong and prosperous once again.

General de Gaulle expressed his appreciation for the foregoing remarks of the President, but reverted to the question of Germany’s western frontier and said that the left bank of the Rhine, which consisted of a variety of different geographic regions which he said had never been united, should definitely be taken away from Germany. He also repeated his desire to have the Ruhr placed under an inter-Allied administration.

The President and the Secretary replied to General de Gaulle that the primary requisite for world security is understanding of the Allies working together in an effective international organization. Furthermore, the atomic bomb will give pause to countries which might be tempted to commit aggressions. The President then said that above all the world needs an economic restoration. He added that all countries are seeking aid from the United States, and that it is obviously a physical impossibility for the United States to extend to all these countries as much aid and assistance as they would like to receive. Nevertheless, the President assured General de Gaulle that France will certainly receive favorable consideration.

Regarding the Ruhr, the President and the Secretary mentioned that in the last days of the Potsdam conversations, the USSR had on several occasions brought up the question of its internationalization with participation of Russian troops in the occupation of the Ruhr, but the American delegation had avoided discussing the matter.

The President took occasion to say that France and the United States have always been friends, and the President expects this fruitful friendship to continue. He told General de Gaulle that the United States believes that it is in its own interest to see France restored to prosperity and well-being. General de Gaulle expressed appreciation for these views, but said that France is suffering from a variety of ills. The President replied, “We want to help cure them.”

87. This copy of memorandum of conversations obtained from the files of the Division of European Affairs is unsigned and its authorship cannot be determined. Another account of the two conversations written by Henri Bonnet is printed in Charles de Gaulle’s Mémoires de Guerre, vol. iii: Le Salut, 1044–1946, (Libraire Plon, 1959) pp. 550–553. On August 24 President Truman and General de Gaulle met at 3:30 p.m. for a further conversation; for memorandum by Bonnet of this conversation, see ibid., p. 553.
89. For text of communiqué, see Conference of Berlin (Potsdam), vol. ii, p. 1499.