740.00119 Council/9–1145
United States Delegation Minutes of the Sixth Meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers, London, September 17, 1945, 11 a.m.
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Italian Peace Treaty
Bevin said the first question was that of the Dodecanese. Proposal of the United States was that they were to be ceded by Italy and handed over to Greece and that they be demilitarized. There had been a proposal in regard to the island of Castelrosso which he now proposed to withdraw. The British Delegation was in agreement with the United States proposal.
Molotov said that he recognized that Greece had sufficient grounds to claim these islands. They had decided to refer the question of [Page 205] colonies to the Deputies and he thought it would be proper to refer this question to the Deputies to study in greater detail. There were many questions which should be examined. He asked if he understood that the British agreed with the United States that these islands should be demilitarized and he pointed out that this was not in the British draft.
Bevin said that the British would agree to demilitarization.
Molotov said he wanted to know whether the principle of demilitarization was being applied to other islands in this area which did not belong to Greece. If they were not being demilitarized there must be some reason. It was evident that this question must be studied. Their Naval people had pointed out the grave situation that had arisen in these islands during the war for ships that sailed past them at a time when they were dominated by Germany and Italy and when Greece was unable to defend them. It seemed to him that it was not necessary from the fact that the Soviet Government attached particular importance to this area but because it was near the entrance to the Black Sea. He thought it should be referred to the Deputies for study.
Byrnes asked if he understood the position of the Soviet Delegation correctly. Was it that all they wanted was that Greece should have the right to build fortifications on the islands?
Molotov replied that before answering this question he would like to see the opinion of the Greeks.
Byrnes pointed out that there were two questions before them. Did the Soviet Delegation agree that these islands be ceded to Greece?
Molotov said he had already emphasized the right that Greece had to these islands.
Byrnes said then he understood that the French had expressed agreement and he thought the Chinese had no objection. Could they then not decide that these islands be ceded to Greece? Then they could refer to the Deputies as to whether they were to be demilitarized and they could consult the Greek Government as to their views. He anticipated that they would have no serious disagreement in regard to this matter. They should at least instruct the Deputies in regard to the first question.
Molotov requested that the whole matter be examined by the Deputies.
Byrnes said he saw no reason to refer to the Deputies the question of whether these islands be ceded to Greece. That was a question of policy and there was nothing to be examined by the Deputies. It must be decided by the Council. The position the Deputies would find themselves in if it were referred to them was that four Delegations had expressed willingness that the islands be ceded to Greece and that [Page 206] the Soviet Delegation had not definitively expressed its agreement. If the Soviet Delegation could agree then the Deputies could draft the language for carrying out their decision and they could leave for further consideration the question of demilitarization.
Molotov observed that if he lived in North America he could decide the question without delay.
Byrnes said he was sorry that he was not an inhabitant of North America. The United States was just as vitally interested. Twice in our generation our people had been obliged to go to war when they did not want to go to war. We would want to be of some help in making the peace now that the war was over.
Molotov said he could assure Mr. Byrnes that he would lose nothing in the settlement of this problem if they gave more study to it.
Bevin said the British Delegation did not put in their draft the demilitarization proposal. When it was raised the other day they thought that there had been agreement and they had responded to what they thought would be a general basis of agreement. If it were now decided to cede the islands to Greece and give further study to demilitarization he would have no objection. He understood that it was not the intention of any of the five powers represented at the Council to make claim to any of these islands.
Molotov replied that this was correct.
Bevin asked if it would not be best for the Council to go on record on this matter and then refer to the Deputies who could consider with the military and naval advisers the question of demilitarization.
Molotov thought it was desirable to give more attention to this question and to learn the opinion of Greece. This would take time and it would be best to have the matter first studied by the Deputies and then by the Council.
Byrnes said they all agreed that the Deputies should consider the question of demilitarization but the Deputies could not make any other disposition of the islands in view of the language used by the representatives on the Council. If after several weeks of consideration the Deputies submitted a report, four of them would propose to cede the islands to Greece and the other Deputy’s report which would be either for or against it would not help Mr. Molotov make a decision. The Council would not help its own standing if it referred a question of this kind to the Deputies. If his Soviet friend was not ready to decide now he proposed that they postpone it to a later meeting of this session and decide it themselves.
Molotov thanked Mr. Byrnes for his invariably friendly attitude. He preferred to refer the matter to the Deputies not for decision but only for study which would be helpful to them. The Soviet Delegation thought it desirable to seek the opinion of the Greeks but of course [Page 207] it would be better to seek the opinion of a Government which he hoped would be set up than to ask a Government which did not enjoy the confidence of the Greeks.
Byrnes said the Deputies could not do anything about the question of the Government of Greece. A few moments ago the Soviet representative had said that no one of the powers here should have these islands. The question was to whom should they go. Did Mr. Molotov have any doubt that if any faction of the Greeks were asked about the matter they would not want the islands?
Molotov thought that Mr. Byrnes was right that all Greeks would be in favor of taking them but he thought the whole question should be passed over for detailed study.
Byrnes thought he could give satisfaction to his Soviet colleague by proposing that they say “it is decided that the Dodecanese be ceded to Greece. However, if after the Greek Government refused to accept the islands, the whole question will be considered by the Council”.
Molotov suggested that they transmit the question of the Dodecanese to the Deputies for study on the understanding that they would study the question taking into account the exchange of views that had taken place in the Council.
Byrnes said he wished again to ask his friend to defer discussion to a later meeting.
Molotov replied he could agree to postpone the matter but he was afraid this would not give sufficient time.
Byrnes said he believed in being frank. If his friend had made up his mind that he would not decide this matter until the Greek elections the question would have to be postponed until they met again, but it would be a farce to refer it to the Deputies to study because there was nothing they could do about it.
Molotov said he frankly thought this view was too pessimistic.
Bevin asked what the Deputies would have to study.
Molotov said they could study the British and American drafts.
Bevin asked if he understood that the record would show that the Islands should be ceded by Italy. The decision to cede the islands to somebody was recorded.
Molotov preferred to say that the Council of Foreign Ministers referred the proposals made by the British and American Delegations to the Deputies for study and request them to take into account the exchange of views that has taken place in the Council.
Byrnes said he would not agree to any such proposal. If this matter were referred to the Deputies it would have to be reported back when they met again and the Council would have to decide it. The people of the world were looking to this Council for action. They would never understand what kind of study the Deputies would make [Page 208] of the case of ceding the islands to Greece. He wished to propose that they be ceded to Greece subject to review after receiving the Deputies’ report on the question of demilitarization. He would object to this being referred to the Deputies under the pretence that they had anything to consider on the question of whether they should be ceded and if so to whom.
Bevin said it was difficult for him to understand why on Monday they could decide to cede islands to Yugoslavia and Albania but could not decide this matter. North America was about the same distance from both of them. They had never attempted to refer these other questions to the Deputies. He thought the Soviet Delegation should also reach a decision. He observed questions of the character of governments was not limited to Greece and that governments come and go at least in some countries.
Molotov said the facts given by Mr. Byrnes were correct.
Byrnes asked if Mr. Molotov then agreed with him.
Molotov replied that he agreed with the facts given but there was also the fact that the Greek islands were closer to the Black Sea than the Dalmatian Islands. This made it imperative to refer the question to the Deputies for study.
Bevin inquired if it were not agreed that the islands would be ceded by Italy and that none of the five powers represented on the Council had any claim to them.
Molotov replied that he had no doubt but that they could agree on the remaining questions but he felt that this one would require further study.
Byrnes asked what directive would be given to the Deputies.
Molotov said he was willing to repeat his suggestion for the third time that the Deputies take into account the exchange of views which had taken place in the Council and which he pointed out was friendly to Greece.
Bevin asked if this meant that no objection would be made by the Deputies that the islands would be ceded by Italy.
Molotov observed that if Mr. Bevin wanted them to decide all questions at this meeting he wanted too much. The Deputies should be instructed to study this question taking into account the exchange of views between all Delegations which he again pointed out had been friendly to Greece.
Byrnes said he objected to the question going to the Deputies on any pretense of their making a report. Four of the Deputies would be ready to report tomorrow. If the Soviet Delegation had not decided on its position and wanted some inquiry made by its Deputy for a report later this week or if not then, to the next session of the Council he could agree but he could not agree to the farce of transmitting [Page 209] the question to the Deputies for study when there was nothing for them to study.
Bidault said the opinion of the French Delegation was that it appeared to them to be normal that the Dodecanese be ceded to Greece and the French Delegation was not opposed to demilitarization. With respect to the question of procedure he observed that this was the first time that the French Delegation participated in such a discussion on a basis of equality with the other powers and that it was therefore not experienced in such matters. He felt, however, that the sooner the question was decided the better. The French desire was that there should be agreement on substance.
Wang said the Chinese Delegation had no objection to the islands being ceded to Greece.
Molotov suggested that they accept the proposal of Mr. Byrnes that this question be deferred to the next session of the Council if it was impossible to agree on referring it to the Deputies.
Byrnes pointed out that his proposal was to defer the question from day to day and that only if there was no agreement before adjournment then it should go over to the next session.
Molotov said he agreed with this proposal.
Bevin observed that the decision was that the matter was adjourned and that it remained in the hands of the Council.
Byrnes added that it remained in the hands of the Council with the hope that it could be decided in the course of this week.
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- For the full record of this meeting, as prepared by the Secretary General, see supra.↩