Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States, The Paris Peace Conference, 1919, Volume XI

Paris Peace Conf. 184.00101/107

Notes on the Meeting of the Commissioners and the Technical Experts of the American Commission to Negotiate Peace, Hotel Crillon, Paris, Tuesday, July 8, 1919

Paris, July 8, 1919

The Commissioners called the meeting. Mr. Lansing explained their purpose in so doing. Mr. Harrison, at the request of the Steering Committee, read out a list of subjects connected with the German Treaty which still remained uncompleted.

Secretary Lansing: That is all that is left of the German Treaty unless somebody else has something to mention.

Mr. Harrison: Treaty with Austria. 1st: The Sudbahn. This question was adjourned by the Supreme Council on June 28th, no decision having been reached.⁶ That is relating to French holdings in the Sudbahn.

Secretary Lansing: Yes, Mr. Dulles knows about that.

Doctor Scott: Mr. Dulles stated this morning that he had a very important meeting at half-past ten at the Quai d’Orsay which might prevent his being present at this meeting, and asked to have that fact reported to you.

Mr. Harrison: 2nd: The Status of Montenegro. The discussion on this question was adjourned pending the receipt by President Wilson of a report from United States Commissioners.

Secretary Lansing: I don’t know who was on that Commission. Do you know about that? (Addressing Prof. Coolidge.)

Prof. Coolidge: I haven’t any information about it.

Major Johnson: I didn’t know that any special commission was formed on that.

Secretary Lansing: What does the “United States Commissioners” mean?

Major Johnson: I think that a commission had been sent to Montenegro.

Mr. Harrison: If I remember correctly, Mr. Secretary, I think somebody who was a military observer for those countries was instructed through the embassy in Rome, to make an investigation and report. I don’t remember his name.

Secretary Lansing: That was several months ago.

Major Johnson: That was several months ago.

Mr. Harrison: Is the report in?

Major Johnson: Yes, he is here in Paris at this moment. Sherman Miles.

Secretary Lansing: We had better find out what his views are.

Mr. Harrison: Did he ever report to you, General?

General Bliss: No. I think the matter that you refer to was when they sent over two officers who were attached to the embassy in Borne; they went over—I don’t know under whose instructions,—and they made reports several months ago. Since then I have heard of no commission there.

Secretary Lansing: What does that mean—the 28th? Has there been a further discussion?

Mr. Harrison: No, this was not the 28th. This was some time before.

Secretary Lansing: Who is directly handling the Montenegrin situation?

Major Johnson: I suppose it came up in connection with the Rumanian and Jugo-Slav question.

Secretary Lansing: I should think so. Or the Balkan.

Major Johnson: The question came up in the Jugo-Slav Territorial Commission; my impression is that it was referred to the Albanian and Greek Commission.

Mr. Harrison: 3rd: Italian Claims in the Adriatic. That is being handled.

Secretary Lansing: Yes, that is still under discussion.

Mr. Harrison: Repatriation of Austrian Prisoners of War. Report of Committee. That is on the agenda for the meeting this afternoon—if it takes place.

Secretary Lansing: Is there going to be one?

Mr. Harrison: If it takes place. The 5th is also on the agenda for this afternoon: Frontiers of Jugo-Slavia with Hungary in: Baranya and Prekomurye. It is a note from the Jugo-Slav Committee dated May 22, 1919.

Major Johnson: That has not been acted on by the Council.

Secretary Lansing: Is that a revision?

Major Johnson: Yes, slight rectification of both areas.

Mr. Harrison: That is all on the list of the Council for the treaty with Austria, sir.

Secretary Lansing: The rest of it is settled, is that correct?

Doctor Scott: Yes.

Secretary Lansing: I mean, is it drafted up to that point?

Doctor Scott: Yes. You called attention yesterday at the Quai d’Orsay to the fact that a certain portion of the Treaty with Austria had been given, and a certain portion reserved. It took some time for the reserved portions to be given, because the details of the German Treaty were apparently handled by the Supreme Council, and the Austrian matters were set aside for the time being. Those supplementary matters have all been completed; they have all been referred to the Drafting Committee, and all been put in form, and I brought over, as a matter of interest, the draft of the Austrian Treaty, which is completed from the first number to 374.

Secretary Lansing: What I was trying to get at yesterday was whether the articles in the Austrian Treaty that never had been delivered to Austria should not be delivered without waiting until we had considered all their objections to the other articles.

Doctor Scott: That is a question of policy.

Secretary Lansing: I think so.

Mr. White: When is it proposed to give the whole thing?

Doctor Scott: You will have to ask your neighbor, I should think.

Secretary Lansing: I think it will be ready tomorrow or the next day.

Doctor Scott: As far as the Drafting Committee is concerned, it would be ready this evening. The only outstanding matter, with which we are acquainted, that is delaying it, is the proposed change of boundary lines between Hungary and Austria.

Secretary Lansing: That is the trouble, and I don’t see any reason for holding up the whole treaty for that.

Doctor Scott: If that Committee does not report, I should think a method of settling it would be to transmit the entire treaty as it can be printed, either tomorrow or the next day, and calling attention to the Austro-Hungarian frontier, and stating that there may be a subsequent communication on the boundary line there.

Secretary Lansing: But that can be said to arise from the notes that Austria submitted.

Doctor Scott: Exactly.

Secretary Lansing: And therefore I don’t see why those other articles that never have been delivered should not be delivered.

Doctor Scott: They are ready.

Secretary Lansing: That is the way I feel about it.

Mr. Harrison: Shall we put the delivery on the agenda for the next meeting, sir?

Secretary Lansing: Yes, let us get that point settled.

Mr. Harrison: The delivery of the remainder?

Secretary Lansing: Yes. There is no sense of holding them up on that. They might just as well be working on that as cooling their heels waiting for it.

Major Johnson: Have they decided on the form in which they will present the clauses respecting the southern frontiers of Austria assuming that the Italian-Jugo-Slav controversy remains unsettled until afterwards?

Secretary Lansing: I don’t think we ought to go on, but I think that is settled, that is, Austria renounces, without specifying to whom.

Doctor Scott: Is that regarding Italy?

Secretary Lansing: Well, it covers all that southern boundary: Jugo-Slavia and Italy.

Doctor Scott: I would like to say that there are four provisions in the Treaty as drafted bearing directly on that very point, and they can all be summed up in the single statement that where a boundary has been left to subsequent agreement, or there has not been a present agreement contained in the treaty, that an obligation is imposed upon Austria to recognize any disposition in accordance with the terms of the treaty that may be made of this territory by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers and the Powers in particular interested, and that includes Italy, because you cannot trace the boundaries of Jugo-Slavia without outlining the Italian boundary, and there is no doubt about that—that is clearly done, and acceptable to all the parties.

Mr. Harrison: That completes the Austrian Treaty and the whole of the Hungarian Treaty.

Secretary Lansing: The Hungarian Treaty is not touched yet?

Doctor Scott: Not quite true, Mr. Chairman. The Drafting Committee has, in printed form, all of that part of that treaty which might be considered of a general nature.

Secretary Lansing: Following the German and the Austrian?

Doctor Scott: Following the German and the Austrian the Pact: the Political Clauses, the Labor Convention, and all of those matters of a general nature, are ready, and they form at least half of the treaty.

Secretary Lansing: Yes. And then we have got the Economic and the Boundary questions.

Doctor Scott: The Economic and the Boundary questions. Those are really the only outstanding things that will require consideration.

Secretary Lansing: Do you know whether they have been considered at all?

Major Johnson: The frontiers.

Secretary Lansing: Of course the frontiers have, but not definitely, have they?

Major Johnson: There are some parts of them that have not yet been definitely decided upon.

Secretary Lansing: Has your Commission been requested to draw the boundaries of Hungary? I mean the General Commission, with Tardieu?

Major Johnson: Not with my knowledge. Prof. Coolidge maybe knows about that.

Secretary Lansing: Are you on that?

Prof. Coolidge: Not to my knowledge. There has been no word of that.

Secretary Lansing: Please have that put on the agenda.

Prof. Coolidge: Certain boundaries have been notified.

Secretary Lansing: What?

Prof. Coolidge: That is, Major Jung has been told by telegraph what the permanent boundaries of Hungary will be.

Mr. Harrison: The Banat has been finished, and also the northern boundary of Serbia.

Secretary Lansing: I know, but the whole thing has not been coordinated.

Prof. Coolidge: The whole thing has not been referred to any committee.

Secretary Lansing: Put that down for reference merely.

Major Johnson: The question of the boundaries of Austria and Hungary is still under consideration, to be determined upon by the Commission, and will be ready to be submitted to the Council at any time.

Secretary Lansing: How long?

Major Johnson: I think this afternoon.

Secretary Lansing: Better report it at once.

Major Johnson: Certain changes in the Austrian lines elsewhere are dependent upon certain concessions in that part of the boundary.

Secretary Lansing: But I think we had better leave the whole question of the drafting of the boundaries of Hungary so that that can be pushed along.

Mr. Harrison: There are one or two other points, in addition to frontiers, in connection with that Treaty, sir—in connection with responsibilities.

Secretary Lansing: Responsibilities?

Mr. Hudson (?): The responsibilities for crimes, etc.

Secretary Lansing: Yes. Do you put that in the general clauses?

Mr. Hudson (?): Put that in the general clauses. We just have it in the general form.

Colonel Grant: The draft has been submitted to the Council of Four.

Mr. Hudson (?): Yes, about six weeks ago.

Secretary Lansing: Has that ever been acted upon, do you know?

Colonel Grant: I don’t think so.

Secretary Lansing: Please put that down for a question to ask the Council. Just ask the question: What has happened to that report?

Mr. Harrison: Ports, Waterways, and Railways.

Mr. Hudson (?): They are being drafted this week. The report will be ready on Wednesday.

Secretary Lansing: Tomorrow?

Mr. Hudson (?): Yes, sir.

Mr. Harrison: Economic clauses.

Mr. Nielsen: I think they are substantially completed; I mean those that are called economic clauses in the other treaties.

Secretary Lansing: Financial and reparations?

Mr. Nielsen: No, that does not include that; but what is called “Section 10” in the other treaty.

Secretary Lansing: Trade and Commerce, etc?

Mr. Nielsen: Yes.

Secretary Lansing: Do you know anything about the Reparations and Finance?

Mr. Nielsen: No, I have had nothing to do with that. I think Mr. Dulles has to do with that.

Secretary Lansing: I know, but I wanted to know whether you had any knowledge of it.

Doctor Scott: They are working on that, and making very considerable progress, but the details I don’t know.

Mr. Harrison: “Prisoners of War.” Gen. McKinstry is not here.

Secretary Lansing: That all comes under the same head, doesn’t it, Colonel? That is under Gen. McKinstry?

Colonel Grant: Yes.

Secretary Lansing: I suppose it is almost the same in the case of Hungary as it is in the case of Austria.

Colonel Grant: I should think so.

Secretary Lansing: Any material difference?

Colonel Grant: I haven’t seen any draft of it.

Secretary Lansing: Is that all?

Mr. Harrison: That concludes Hungary.

Mr. Hudson: The Minorities Clauses are to go into the treaty with Hungary. They have not been prepared.

Secretary Lansing: Who is in charge of that?

Mr. Hudson: The Committee on New States. The clauses will correspond to those in the Polish Treaty, which were also put into the Austrian Treaty, and it is merely a matter of adaptation, which can be done in a very short time.

Secretary Lansing: Has that Committee been requested to do it?

Mr. Hudson: Yes, the Supreme Council requested them to prepare clauses for the Austrian and Hungarian and Bulgarian treaties, in addition to those of the New States.

Mr. Harrison: Then the Treaty with Bulgaria. “Note: The main outstanding point in the Treaty with Bulgaria is the Southern Boundary, which is dependent on the settlement as regards Turkey in Europe.” And that was referred to that special committee the other day.

Secretary Lansing: What?

Mr. Harrison: The Southern Boundary.

Secretary Lansing: We had better ask them why they did not have a meeting. And that cuts them off entirely from the Aegean Sea, doesn’t it?

Mr. Johnson: Well, it does, as recommended in the report. I think there is a reservation by the American representatives making that question of cutting off Bulgaria from the Aegean Sea dependent upon the nature of the Constantinople state—the extent of it, really.

Secretary Lansing: Of course it affects very materially their economic life to cut them off from the Aegean. For stability I am not at all sure that it is a good thing.

Doctor Scott: There is that other question of Dobrudja, the extent of territory in which you would have to get a search warrant out for Rumania.

Secretary Lansing: I notice it was reported—whether true or not, I don’t know—that Rumania had suggested to Bulgaria that she furnish two divisions to help her fight the Bolshevists, and as a consideration they would give them the southern portion of Dobrudja.

Mr. White: Bulgaria declined.

Mr. Lansing: Bulgaria declined. [Sic.]

Secretary Lansing: But that matter of Dobrudja ought to be pretty carefully studied. I don’t know what the economic problems are in the Dobrudja.

Mr. Johnson: They are very small.

Secretary Lansing: But the ethnological problems are very apparent.

Mr. Johnson: The Territorial Commission agreed to the principle of restoration by Rumania to Bulgaria of a portion of the Dobrudja, with the dissension of one of the French representatives; one gave a dissenting opinion. The others were in agreement.

Secretary Lansing: Where is that report?

Mr. Johnson: That is the report of the Commission on Rumanian and Jugo-Slav Affairs.

Secretary Lansing: Has it been made to the Secretary-General?

Mr. Johnson: I am quite sure that it has.

Mr. Harrison: Responsibilities and Breaches of the Laws of War. The Articles included in the Austrian Treaty are applicable to the Treaty with Bulgaria.

Military, Naval and Air Clauses.

Secretary Lansing: They have been made?

Mr. Harrison: They have been started.

Secretary Lansing: I don’t think there is any use of starting on that.

Mr. Harrison: Ports, Waterways and Railways.

Secretary Lansing: I think that ought to go on the agenda, because the whole Italian problem ought to be one problem together, very largely, don’t you?

Mr. White: I do.

Mr. Harrison. Like that in the Austrian Treaty.

Secretary Lansing. Well, I think it ought to be on the agenda for consideration, to see whether there is any difference. I assume that it is practically the same thing running through all. That is, it doesn’t make any difference.

Mr. Hudson: Could a discussion be held on the Ports, Waterways and Railways clauses to go into the Treaty with Hungary and Bulgaria?

Secretary Lansing: I think it would be wise.

Mr. Hudson: And some changes would be necessary in the Treaty with Austria. I suppose in the reply to the Austrians notice will be given to those changes.

Secretary Lansing: In regard to the use of the Danube?

Mr. Hudson: To the Danube.

Secretary Lansing: Of course in Hungary and in Jugo-Slavia and in Bulgaria the Danube runs through their territory, doesn’t it?

Mr. Hudson: Yes.

Secretary Lansing: It is not a boundary, I mean; it runs entirely through their territory?

Mr. Hudson: Well, it will be a boundary part of the way.

Secretary Lansing: Part of the way it is a boundary, but I mean at the same time each of those countries has it in their territory?

Mr. Johnson: Not in the case of Bulgaria.

Secretary Lansing: How about the mouth? No, that runs through Rumania,—that is true—the Dobrudja. Well, it would make a difference in the event that the southern portion of the Dobrudja was ceded, especially if they ceded it up to the Danube. I don’t suppose they will do that. But as to the use of the Danube, couldn’t that go into the Hungarian Treaty so that Rumania will be bound by it?

Mr. Johnson: I should think so.

Secretary Lansing: As to the use of the Danube.

Mr. White: It ought to be.

Secretary Lansing: There ought to be some Article in there that will control the use of the Danube after it enters Rumanian territory, and that can be just as well inserted in some general clauses as to the use of the Danube. Are all three of the mouths of the Danube navigable, or only two?

Mr. Johnson: I am not sure about the three. Two of them are.

Secretary Lansing: The central one is the least important one.

Admiral Knapp: Two mouths are navigable, and the third for small craft. Only one of them is navigable to vessels of considerable draft.

Secretary Lansing: Is that the northern one or the southern one?

Rear-Admiral Knapp: That is the southern one, as I recall it, sir, and that has not been improved during the war, and needs very much improvement. They will need very considerable work or reparation before the mouth of the Danube is ready.

Secretary Lansing: Is there a provision as to contribution for improvements of the Danube?

Mr. Hudson: There is only a provision, Mr. Secretary, as to continuing the European Commission of the Danube as it was before the war. That situation will go on.

Secretary Lansing: Well, is that sufficient to make the mouths navigable?

Mr. Hudson: It is thought so.

Mr. Harrison: Economic Clauses: Report of Commission, though not sent in, is ready for consideration by the Supreme Council.

Secretary Lansing: Is that a unanimous report?

Mr. Nielsen: I think it is. I know of no exception.

Secretary Lansing: Then that can be sent in.

Mr. Nielsen: I think so.

Mr. Harrison: Prisoners of War. Still under consideration. Reparation. The Reparation Commission has failed to reach an agreement.

Secretary Lansing: Well, we will have to wait for them.

Mr. Harrison: And “Financial Clauses” depends on the result of the Reparation Commission, I should say.

I have nothing else regarding Bulgaria, sir.

Mr. Hudson: There will be a separate treaty with Bulgaria concerning minorities,—no, it will be into the Treaty of Peace with Bulgaria.

Secretary Lansing: Yes, a separate section.

Mr. Harrison: Are you working on that?

Mr. Hudson: Yes, that is about ready.

Mr. Palmer: Is it expected the United States will sign the treaty with Bulgaria?

Secretary Lansing: The President’s point of view is that we are more or less guaranteeing this peace, and if we do, why we have got to take part in the Treaty. I don’t quite know what we are really to do; we have never made war with Bulgaria, and never even broke diplomatic relations with her.

Mr. Palmer: In regard to the Economic Clauses, I attended one or two meetings of the Commission discussing those subjects, and I understood from the instructions at that time that we were to participate in the meetings, but we are not to participate in the Treaty.

Secretary Lansing: I think that was the first view.

Mr. Palmer: We discussed a good many subjects with which we are totally unfamiliar. I know nothing about Bulgaria and its relations with its neighbors. Now some of the very long discussions that came up were respecting the rights to railways which the Greeks had interests in. Now I should not care to be bound by those discussions, because it is a subject I don’t know anything about whatever. The only remarks that the American delegates made were of a very general character, such as that the rights of everybody should be protected, and things of that kind, and I should hesitate to think that the United States delegates had passed upon those topics with a view to signing the treaty. The treaty was to be signed by the others who were to have the responsibility for the adjustments, etc. It sounds all right on the surface, but I don’t feel like saying that we are bound by them when we go to sign the Treaty. If we are going to sign the Treaty I think we ought to study it from a different angle.

Secretary Lansing: Well, I think we ought to study it then from a different angle, because I think that is the President’s disposition—to sign.

Mr. Nielsen: What Mr. Palmer says could be said in behalf of all of those who sat on the several commissions, some of whom are not here now, because under the instructions we announced the general rule that we took no part in the decisions.

Secretary Lansing: Yes, that is right.

Mr. Palmer: It appears on the records.

Secretary Lansing: But I think it ought to be carefully studied and a memorandum prepared, at least for our own use, in the event that it comes up before the Council, as to the determination of the question.

Mr. Harrison: Treaty with Turkey. As far as the Supreme Council is concerned, the consideration has been postponed until it is known whether the United States will accept a mandate.

Secretary Lansing: Yes, and of course that comes after the Treaty with Germany.

Mr. Harrison: The Economic Commission is considering the Turkish Treaty at the present time.

Secretary Lansing: The Economic—and I assume the Territorial too,—are you not? Has it been submitted at all to the Territorial Commission, as to boundaries?

Major Johnson: The Commission has taken up that side of it.

Secretary Lansing: Yes, under the Aegean?

Major Johnson: Yes.

Secretary Lansing: Well, how is it, Mr. Buckler?

Mr. Buckler: Nothing decided yet.

Secretary Lansing: Has there been a commission on the subject?

Mr. Buckler: No, I think Mr. Venizelos has rather avoided any commissions. Nothing been decided.

Secretary Lansing: I think that can rest.

Mr. Nielsen: The economic clauses have been drafted, Mr. Secretary, along the lines of the other treaties, except the disagreeable question of capitulation.

Secretary Lansing: But that all depends, doesn’t it, or depends in very large measure, on whether it goes under mandates or whether there is to be an independent Turkish state?

Mr. Nielsen: Well, they proceeded on the supposition that there was to be a certain Turkey which has been called Turkey proper, but the really disagreeable question is as to capitulations, as to whether it can be maintained, or extended even, as some have proposed.

Secretary Lansing: I think we will have to drop that, except I think we ought to continue the study of it, and I think we ought to study the boundaries. We don’t want a perfectly impoverished Armenia, for example. That is a perfectly useless proposition. You might just as well make the Sahara a state as to do that.

Well, has anybody any suggestions? Of course there is this that we want to bear in mind, and that is the necessity, so far as possible, of cutting down our personnel, but we don’t want to cut it down to where it is going to materially impair our work at all, but it is quite essential on account of the state of funds, that the personnel be cut down as much as possible.

(Discussion as to appropriations followed.)

Mr. Harrison: There are still some miscellaneous questions.

Secretary Lansing: What are they?

Mr. Harrison: Mandates. A special commission is considering them.

Size of the Army of Occupation in the Rhine Provinces. Referred to the Military Representatives at Versailles on June 27th.

Supply of Armaments to New States. This was a report of a special committee composed of M. Loucheur, Mr. W. T. Layton, and an Italian representative.

Shipping for the French Colonies. Referred to a special Commission. Mr. Hipwood is the British representative.

Secretary Lansing: What is that?

Mr. Harrison: Shipping for the French Colonies. Do you know anything about that?

Secretary Lansing: No. Never heard of that.

Mr. Harrison: Co-operation of Czecho-Slovak troops with Admiral Koltchak.

Secretary Lansing: Never heard of that.

Mr. Harrison: General Bliss is handling that.

Secretary Lansing: Oh, those are the ones in Siberia?

Mr. Harrison: Yes.

Secretary Lansing: That is under General Bliss.

Mr. Harrison: Eastern Frontiers of Germany: (a) Assistance to Poland, (b) Size of Allied Army of Occupation in Upper Silesia during plebiscite. Referred to the Military Representatives at Versailles on June 27th.

Military Supplies to Poland. Referred to the Military Representatives at Versailles on June 27th.

Disposal of German Warships.

Secretary Lansing: Which German warships?

Mr. Harrison: Apparently they did not sink those in German ports, sir, and then there is the proposed Treaty regarding entrances to Baltic. Recommendation of Baltic Commission. That is to come up to the Council pretty soon.

The sale by Germany of State Property in Danish Slesvig. That is for its attention.

Reparation for destruction of German Fleet in Scapa Flow. Report of Commission on Reparation. Mr. Dulles said this morning that he didn’t see how anything could be done.

Colonel Grant: You didn’t read No. 11.

Mr. Harrison: That was finished yesterday.

Loan to the Baltic States. Recommendation of Baltic Commission.

Secretary Lansing: What is that?

Mr. Harrison: The members of the British and French said they would try to get an appropriation of two hundred thousand pounds apiece. I don’t think they have yet.

Secretary Lansing: I haven’t heard of it.

Mr. Harrison: Approval of the Air Commission. I received the report last night. It is very lengthy.

Evacuation of Klagenfurt. Claim of Jugo-Slavs to regard Austrian war material as war booty.

Question of adding members to Commission of Control.

That is all I have.

Secretary Lansing: Have you got anything, gentlemen?

Mr. Hudson: The Committee on New States is preparing drafts of treaties with Czecho-Slovakia, Jugo-Slavia, Rumania and Greece analogous to the separate treaty with Poland.

Secretary Lansing: I want to ask one thing. What treaties have we, the United States, got to negotiate directly with Germany? Treaties of commerce?

Mr. Nielsen: That will depend on the status of the treaty that we want to maintain. Under certain of the Economic Clauses all bilateral treaties are abrogated, with the right of any country to revive such treaty as they want to revive. It has always been my supposition that we would get rid of these separate German state treaties, and probably revive those which we concluded with the Empire, avoiding all these disagreeable questions.

Secretary Lansing: I think we have a consular treaty with the Empire.

Mr. Nielsen: Yes.

Secretary Lansing: But there are some of the earlier commercial treaties that we have lived under, and I think our extradition treaty is an early one too.

Mr. Nielsen: Yes, the naturalization, commerce, navigation and extradition are all with separate states.

Secretary Lansing. Ought we not to negotiate new treaties?

Mr. Nielsen: I don’t think there is any great hurry about those things, because the economic clauses so perfectly protect our commerce, leaving, of course, the matter of extradition, which is serious. But, if I [may] make a suggestion, I think it would be advisable not to revive any of the separate extradition treaties, because they are very nasty, and they have given rise to disagreeable questions. I think our naturalization and commerce are perfectly covered by the economic clauses. I think an extradition treaty could be negotiated in a few months, and I think that will be better than reviving.

Secretary Lansing: What form will the revival take? A notification?

Mr. Nielsen: A notification that it will become effective on a certain date, and then give them a date.

Secretary Lansing: I suppose we had better have a draft of the form as to the revival. Of course we have got to revive our consular treaty.

Mr. Nielsen: …I think there is danger in reviving.

Secretary Lansing: Then let us build a new treaty and get one signed. I think we ought to have a consular treaty. My belief is to have, as far as possible, separate treaties on separate subjects, and not include them in one big treaty.

Dr. Lord: Mr. Secretary, there are a few territorial questions still unsettled which I think were not mentioned. One of the worst is Teschen. There is a divided Commission report on that subject presented some months ago, and various things have happened since that time which may perhaps render a new consideration in the Commission desirable, if the Supreme Council should approve of that.

Secretary Lansing: Well, will you be good enough to prepare a memorandum on the status of that question, and what the needs are in regard to the subject.

Dr. Lord: I believe Mr. Dulles prepared a memorandum.

Mr. A. W. Dulles: It has already been prepared. Have you gotten it?

Secretary Lansing: No.

Dr. Lord: Was it a short memorandum?

Mr. A. W. Dulles: Yes.

Dr. Lord: The question of the Eastern frontiers of Poland.

Secretary Lansing: What was the trouble with that Eastern Galicia question?

Dr. Lord: I think you will remember, Mr. Secretary, that the Council of Foreign Ministers referred it back to the Commission to draft a project of autonomy. The project is being worked upon, but it is not quite completed yet.

Secretary Lansing: It was not a project of autonomy in Eastern Galicia?

Dr. Lord: Yes.

Secretary Lansing: With Poland?

Dr. Lord: A project whereby Eastern Galicia should be connected with Poland, while given a measure of autonomy, pending the time when a consultation could be held.

Secretary Lansing: Well, there was a very little autonomy considered by the Council. I don’t know who put that in.

General Bliss: Yes, it was to be a civil government, with full guarantee of religious liberty; it was to be more or less a form of government approved by the Council of the Allied and Associated Powers.

Secretary Lansing: Yes, it was to be a conditional authority, to be conditioned on their protecting certain rights, but my understanding was that Polish law should extend over Eastern Galicia. There was to be no legislative body to make laws in Eastern Galicia.

Dr. Lord: I believe the word “autonomy” was used in the resolution of the Council of Foreign Ministers.

General Bliss: The establishment of civil government was specifically provided for in the resolution, Authorized to establish a civil government.

Secretary Lansing: Yes that was quite right, and to employ as many Galicians as possible in that government. The point was that you would have to have an entirely separate legislature, with an interallied commissioner at the head, in the event that they were separated in any way from Poland, but that the Polish law would extend over the territory in order that the courts and the government might be, just as the military were, under the Polish authority, and that ultimately they would have the opportunity to determine their own allegiance.

Dr. Lord: And then one other question connected with Poland is the eastern frontier with Russia. Some months ago the British were very eager to get that question settled as quickly as possible, and had it presented to a Polish Commission, who presented a report on it, which has never been acted upon.

Secretary Lansing: That was in the neighborhood of the Lithuanian corner?

Dr. Lord: Yes.

Secretary Lansing: As I remember it the French were the people that wanted something to do with that. It is so long ago that I cannot remember.

Mr. Harrison: They wanted to force the withdrawal of the Germans up there.

Secretary Lansing: They wanted to force the withdrawal of the Germans and let the Poles occupy Lithuanian territory.

Mr. Harrison: But the Council never considered the report of the Commission.

Secretary Lansing: I have never seen it.

Mr. Hudson: Will the United States take any part in the negotiations between the Netherlands and Belgium—the revision of the Treaty of 1839?⁷

Secretary Lansing: I don’t think we ought to. I am not in favor of it, unless they ask us to come in as an arbiter.

End of Meeting.

6. See CF–98, vol. vi, p. 746.
7. For the French text of this treaty, see British and Foreign State Papers, vol. xxxvii, p. 1320.