At Tab A is a memorandum of conversation from the Secretary of Defense
regarding his meeting with Prime Minister Mzali of Tunisia.
A key point in the memorandum concerns Foreign Military Sales credits.
The Administration has requested $140M for FY–83, half of which would be on favorable (concessional)
terms, i.e., at interest rates lower than commercial rates. I believe
that the Administration should push very hard to obtain favorable rates
for the Tunisians.
The Tunisians, however, should not be given the impression that Congress
will approve the $140M request nor the proposal for $70M on concessional
terms. Indeed, State informally has indicated to the working level
Tunisians that they should anticipate receiving only about $85M instead
of $140M.
The Secretary of Defense’s memo states that the Tunisians: “hope that in
addition to the $70 million in FMS, the
other $70 million could be provided ‘as you do for Israel’ (i.e.,
forgiven). Secretary Weinberger
said that ‘essentially, this is the formula we are urging on the
Congress.’ We hope Congress will approve this, but we cannot make such a
promise.”
Unfortunately, this exchange suggests that the Administration is
requesting that $70M be forgiven, which is not true. To clear up this
confusion, I suggest that Michael
Wheeler send to State a copy of the Secretary of
Defense’s memcon and let State straighten out this matter. Otherwise,
the Tunisians will go into the meeting with the President with the false
idea that the Administration has asked for the Congress to approve $70M
in forgiveness for the Tunisians.
Another issue is the Tunisian request to seek another U.S. Navy ship of
similar displacement to the current Tunisian flagship. The Prime
Minister will be raising this issue directly with the President.2 The Navy has advised
the Secretary that no ship is presently available for transfer.
[Page 613]
The Secretary promised to see
if anything suitable can be found and said he will have further
information before the Prime Minister meets with the President on
Thursday, April 29. The Secretary will send under separate cover a paper
addressing the request for another flagship.3
Tab A
Memorandum of Conversation5
Washington, April 27, 1982, 11:30
a.m.–1:40 p.m.
SUBJECT
- Meeting between Secretary Weinberger and Prime Minister Mzali of Tunisia (U)
Principal Participants
-
US
- Caspar W.
Weinberger, Secretary of Defense
- Ambassador Walter
Cutler, U.S. Ambassador to Tunisia
- MG Carl Smith, Military Assistant to the Secretary of
Defense
- Mr. James
Woods, Director, Africa Region, ISA (Notetaker)
- Mr. Alec Toumayan, Dept of State (Interpreter)
-
Tunisia
- Mohamed Mzali,
Prime Minister
- Slaheddine
Baly, Minister of Defense
- Mahmoud
Mestiri, Secretary General, Ministry of
Foreign Affairs
- Habib Ben
Yahia, Tunisian Ambassador to the
U.S.
- Colonel Mokhtar Gmati, Military Attache
- Colonel Brahim Boudabous, Chief, Liaison Bureau,
MOD
(U) Prime Minister Mzali opened the meeting by noting
Minister of Defense Baly’s
invitation to Secretary Weinberger to visit Tunisia. Secretary Weinberger said that he had not
thus far had the opportunity to visit Tunisia but would very much
like to do so. The Prime Minister said “You will be most
welcome.”
(C) Secretary Weinberger noted that Tunisia
occupies a strategic and important location and that the U.S. is
very conscious of this. Prime Minister Mzali responded that Tunisia has noticed with
pleasure
[Page 614]
an “increasing
interest” on the part of the Government of the U.S. in Tunisia,
especially since President Reagan came into office. The Tunisian people and
President Bourguiba
personally are very grateful for this. Secretary Weinberger said that this was a
very correct perception and that President Reagan is a great admirer of
President Bourguiba. The U.S.
appreciates Tunisia’s importance and its support, in the UN and elsewhere, of the same
principles as the U.S. President Reagan is looking forward to meeting the Prime
Minister, he emphasized.
(C) President Bourguiba’s attitude is not
dictated by events, but is a constant attitude based on principle,
the Prime Minister said. President Bourguiba has always supported and been supported by
the United States, since independence. Tunisia would always be on
the side of the West and of the United States, and attached to peace
and freedom. Tunisia would never attack the United States, like some
states which regrettably find it “fashionable” to do so. Secretary
Weinberger said that
the U.S., and President Reagan personally, were quite aware and appreciative
of this. We are, in turn, anxious to be as helpful as we can. We are
happy to have been able to provide more FMS credits in FY82 and want to do much more in the
future. But to do so we must first persuade Congress. I have had
very fine reports on Tunisia from Mr. Carlucci and Mr. West following their visits
there,6 said the Secretary, and these only add to my
desire to visit Tunisia myself; I hope that I can therefore accept
Minister Baly’s kind
invitation soon.
(C) Prime Minister Mzali then explained that Tunisia
has, since independence, devoted the bulk of its resources to
development—health, education, etc. Over 40% of the Tunisian
national budget goes to development. Tunisia had not emphasized
defense, but the Libyan-inspired attack on Gafsa (January 1980)7 reminded Tunisia that an
effective military force was needed as a deterrent. But military
equipment is very expensive, and while Tunisia must do more for its
military it cannot thereby jeopardize its commitment to development.
In this light, “we appreciate your credits very much, but the terms
are heavy, and we hope they can be made lighter in the future.”
(C) Secretary Weinberger said that the U.S.
understood that good social conditions make for good soldiers;
however, it is also true that we must maintain our deterrence
against mischief-makers like Libya and the Soviet Union. The terms
of FMS are a disappointment to many
countries.
[Page 615]
We are seeking
in FY83 to make a larger part of the program concessional, with much
better terms. But the Congress is not yet fully persuaded. We are
glad that FY82 is at $85 million and hope we will get our full $140
million in FY83, as requested; we “know it will go to a good
cause.”
(C) Prime Minister Mzali responded that, with respect
to FY83, they are interested both in the proposed increase in volume
(to $140 million) and in improving the terms, since “current terms
are draconian.” They hope that in addition to the $70 million in
FMS, the other $70 million
could be provided “as you do for Israel” (i.e., forgiven). Secretary
Weinberger said that
“essentially, this is the formula we are urging on the Congress.” We
hope Congress will approve this, but we cannot make such a
promise.
(S) Prime Minister Mzali said this was all the more
urgent since “our Saudi friends, on whom we count so heavily, have
not given us an answer on more help.” He had talked with Prince Fahd
after the Gafsa incident, and Fahd had promised $500 million in
financial support for military purchases. $50 million was provided
soon after, but nothing for the past two years. Prince Fahd is
“personally benevolent” and says that the security of Tunisia is
closely linked to the security of Saudi Arabia, but “we see slowness
in their responding to our request which is, after all, only a drop
in the ocean to them.” The Prime Minister said he had discussed this
problem previously with Mr. Carlucci and with Mr. West and now wanted to discuss it personally with
Secretary Weinberger.
(S) Secretary Weinberger noted that,
unfortunately, the situation described was becoming typical of the
Saudis with respect to several countries. We will, he said,
encourage them to fulfill their plans to support your country. We
hope too that they will find persuasive the arguments we make with
our own Congress, in seeking higher support for your program.
(S) Prime Minister Mzali said that he wanted to give
an example of how the Tunisian development effort is linked to
defense. Our main enemy is unemployment, he said. After the recent
visit by Colonel Qadhafi,
Tunisia reopened its border with Libya.8 In one month,
34,000 young Tunisians crossed into Libya in search of jobs. So
countries like Libya will receive our youth, and train and arm some
of them and send them back by infiltration. This, not tanks and
missiles, is our main threat. For example, only last month, we
picked up seven young Tunisians who reentered from Algeria, after
military training in Libya. So our main problem is subversion and
infiltration; development is the answer and harsh FMS terms handicap our efforts to
improve the economy!
(C) Secretary Weinberger agreed that the
example was a good one. We understand and this is another reason we
want to be as helpful as
[Page 616]
we can. We want the economies of our friends to be healthy, and that
is why we extend economic as well as military assistance. We know
the strains that FMS puts on your
economy. We see the internal danger you face, and the threat of
infiltration.
(S) The Prime Minister continued his
example. Of the 34,000 young men, six or seven thousand came back
soon after; they found that Libya was “no El Dorado.” Jobs are short
there too, and Libya is going through economic difficulties. Libya
has laid off many Tunisian workers from the oilfields. But there is
also an ideological dimension: the Libyans appeal to these young,
unemployed men to join in “just causes,” such as the cause of the
PLO. This is tempting to some
of these unemployed men, and may cause them to join the Libyan
military forces.
(S) Prime Minister Mzali then turned to a new subject.
He wanted to state how pleased he was with two of our efforts in
particular. The first was military training. The U.S. has assisted
Tunisia for years in this area, and it has been of great benefit to
all the services; he hopes it will be continued. Second is “that
confidential area we don’t discuss in public,” namely joint
exercises. He approves of them and they are very helpful. The
Secretary replied that we are pleased to hear this and we certainly
want both training and military joint exercises to continue; we are
grateful to Tunisia for the opportunity for joint training.
(C) Prime Minister Mzali then said he had been
instructed by President Bourguiba, to seek a replacement of the Tunisian
flagship, The President Bourguiba, with another
U.S. Navy ship “of the same displacement,” about 700–1,000 tons. He
was instructed to raise this personally with both Secretary
Weinberger and
President Reagan. President
Bourguiba has made this a
very personal matter; “he feels it deeply as a matter of personal
prestige.” Secretary Weinberger responded that President Reagan has a deep appreciation for
President Bourguiba and would
certainly want to help. Unfortunately, Navy has advised that no ship
is presently available for transfer. We will pursue this to see if
we can find anything at all suitable. New construction might be a
possibility; if Tunisia were to have a ship built in Europe, we
would of course like to see American equipment on it. The Prime
Minister thanked the Secretary for this information.
(U) At this point, the formal meeting
ended, and a signature ceremony took place, with Secretary Weinberger and Minister of
Defense Baly signing the FY82
FMS loan agreement for $85
million.
(S) After the signature ceremony, a
working luncheon was held, with an extensive exchange between the
Prime Minister and Secretary Weinberger. Principal points were:
- —
- Continuing heavy pleas, by Prime Minister Mzali, for better FMS terms in the
future.
- —
- A further strong request for help on the problem of a
replacement for flagship President
Bourguiba; Secretary Weinberger said that he
would ask the Navy to make an immediate further review of
this matter, so that he would have their further advice
before the Prime Minister met with President Reagan on Thursday.
- —
- Agreement on the very serious situation in the Middle East
at the present time, particularly with respect to the
Iran-Iraq war. Prime Minister Mzali voiced the strong fear that, if this
war is not settled soon, the results could be destabilizing
to the entire Gulf.
(U) The luncheon ended at 1:40 p.m.
with Prime Minister Mzali
again urging that Secretary Weinberger plan to visit Tunisia soon.
James L.
Woods9
Director, ISA
Africa Region
