137. Telegram From Secretary of State Shultz to the White House1
Secto 25026. White House for President Reagan. Subject: November 4 Meeting With Shevardnadze.2
1. Secret—Entire text.
2. I met with Shevardnadze for some eight hours today, including a restricted two-hour session on human rights.
3. The Soviets invited us to make a full presentation of our views in all areas, and we did. They had little to contribute themselves.3 The [Page 587] discussion of the Geneva arms control talks was rather standardized, with the Soviets asking familiar questions whose answers they already knew. They had nothing much to say about other issues on our agenda. On human rights, we argued back and forth about the state of human rights in each country. They did say, however, that they are looking carefully at the specific dual citizenship and divided family cases that we have raised, and are examining our other special requests in the light of what they say are their laws on such cases.
4. About the only positive note was the discussion of an initiative concerning cooperation on fusion energy. I presented our preliminary ideas on this subject, and the Soviets considered them to represent a constructive response.
5. At my suggestion, a smaller group is meeting tonight to explore what possibilities there are for agreed elements that might go into a joint document.
6. The atmosphere was cordial throughout, but it was clear that the Soviets either are not very far along in their thinking about their objectives for your meeting in Geneva, or were holding back today to let Gorbachev deliver their views tomorrow. At this stage, therefore, we have no better idea of where they might be heading than we did when we arrived in town this morning.
- Source: Department of State, Central Foreign Policy File, Electronic Telegrams, N850012–0024. Secret; Niact Immediate; Nodis.↩
- On November 4, Reagan wrote in his diary: “In the middle [of lunch] I got a secure phone call from George S. & Bud in Helsinki [Moscow]. They’d just had 8 hrs. of meeting with Shevardnadze with little or nothing accomplished. Tomorrow they meet with Gorbachev.” (Brinkley, ed., The Reagan Diaries, vol. II: November 1985–January 1989, p. 536)↩
- In his personal notes for November 4, Hill wrote: “Summation of the day (cordial, but Sovs are not very far along in their thinking). —S went over CMQ [communiqué] lang in great detail to Sovs discomfort. —They did not appear well organized or prepared in their minds for Geneva. Altho maybe they just saving the content for Gorba to use tomorrow. —Long HR argument—longest ever. —Their talks on Geneva A/C NST was standardized. They asked Q the A’s to which they already know. Overall, we have no better idea of their thinking than we did when we arrived in Moscow this morning.” (Reagan Library, Charles Hill Papers, Charles Hill Notebooks, Entry for November 4, 1985; NLR–675–3–25–1–1). The editor transcribed the text from an entry in Hill’s handwritten notebooks.↩