263. Memorandum of Conversation1
PARTICIPANTS
- The President
- Secretary of State Cyrus Vance
- Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
- Robert Hunter, Staff Member, National Security Council (Notetaker)
- Prime Minister Anker Jørgensen
- Foreign Minister K.B. Andersen
- Ole Bierring, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs
- A Notetaker
SUBJECT
- President’s Meeting with Danish Prime Minister Jørgensen
The President said he had talked with the Prime Minister and learned that he had gone to Harvard. He is a good friend of the U.S. He is also head of the Danish equivalent of the Teamsters Union.
The Prime Minister indicated that it is not the counterpart to our own Teamsters!
Dr. Brzezinski asked when he had been at Harvard.
The Prime Minister replied that it was 1959.
Dr. Brzezinski replied that he was there at the same time.
The President said that he appreciates the Prime Minister’s letter,2 as well as Denmark’s involvement in NATO and its commitment to the importance of reducing nuclear weapons. It is important to have an expression from Denmark on these issues.
The Prime Minister said that on atomic energy (for power), he is not sure how Denmark will go. They are taking it easy and going slowly, and will evaluate the implications some more. It must be accepted by many people who are nervous before it can go forward. But in the long-run, he hopes a solution can be found to the security problems in relation to atomic energy (for power purposes).
The President asked whether Denmark has any nuclear power plants.
The Prime Minister said that they do not have any now, but will need them. All their energy comes from oil—about 95%. They understand that this is too much dependence on one resource.
The President said that our proposal is to provide adequate supplies of nuclear fuel, in situations where the users adopt international safeguards and do not make nuclear explosives.3 Denmark is no problem—it agrees with this approach. Other countries may present problems. He believes that each must decide for itself what it will do with regard to nuclear wastes. Along with Canada and Australia, we are concerned with the spread of nuclear weapons. We don’t impose our will on others, but there needs to be an international agreement: if there is reprocessing, it should be done under international (constraints?). The U.S. is expanding the production of nuclear fuel supply. If Denmark wants—when it gets to that point—we will cooperate with it.
The Prime Minister said that Denmark agrees with this approach.
The President said that a two-month analysis had been agreed upon, concerning uranium deposits; enrichment procedures; transport; use of fuels; waste products; and storage without danger.4 This study will help us understand where the countries agree and where they disagree. This can be a divisive issue if it is not solved early.
He values the friendship and understanding of Denmark. He is new to the job, and may not be aware of Denmark’s specific needs; or accidentally, we might take actions or make statements that would cause concern in Denmark. If so, then the Prime Minister should call or write or send a dispatch and say what the problem is. He does not want to do anything by mistake that would hurt Denmark.
The Prime Minister said that this is good. There is also a different kind of dialogue. There is a very big connection between the President’s ideas and the many ideas of the West European Social Democratic parties.
The President said he thinks this is true.
The Prime Minister said that it is useful to have different kinds of dialogue, with official meetings and other means.
The President said that this is his first trip outside the United States since becoming President. It is good to know the Prime Minister and other leaders. He is eager to learn from the Prime Minister. He hopes that friendship between our two countries—which is strong—will become stronger.
The Prime Minister said that there is good support in Denmark for good relations with the United States. A big majority is in favor of NATO; and few Danes are against it.
The Foreign Minister said that 80% in parliament are for NATO.
The Prime Minister said that they had had a discussion in parliament about the new airplane fighter—the F–16. They need 58 new planes, and they had to get people to understand the need. He had responded by saying that the purchase is for an eight year period, and is part of a total renewal of Denmark’s defenses. The Danish people understand this, and a big majority are for it (the F–16 agreement).
The Foreign Minister said that the agreement had been signed three or four days before.5
The Prime Minister said that co-production is important.
The President said it is difficult to work out the percentages on this. He is glad that Denmark has signed the agreement. Secretary Vance had asked the Prime Minister at lunch about the early entry of Spain into NATO; the Prime Minister had replied that there is some opposition to it, and that after the elections in Spain the climate in Denmark would be better.6
The Prime Minister said that he has also said that Denmark would accept Spain in NATO with a return to democracy. But we should take it easy; the issue has to be discussed and the reasons for Spain’s membership understood in Denmark.
The Foreign Minister said he is going to Spain on Monday7—the first visit of a Danish foreign minister in 40 years.
The Prime Minister said that this visit is on the party plane; they would try to follow up the tendency for true democracy in Europe.
The President said that this is a good move.
The Prime Minister said he had gone to Portugal after the revolution. There had been some criticism (in Denmark). He had seen Soares.
The President said he is a good man.
The Prime Minister said that where there is a similar attitude on the part of the parties, he believes in going and lending his support.
The President said that he likes Soares, and that supporting him at a critical time is important. He does not know King Juan Carlos, but he was impressed with both Soares and Suarez during their visits to Washington.8 He would like to have Spain in NATO. There should be no difficulty, in time, of its being accepted. Does Denmark have diplomatic relations with Spain?
The Prime Minister said yes.
The President said that the Soviet Union does, too.
Secretary Vance and Dr. Brzezinski both said that a Soviet Ambassador is in Madrid now.
The Prime Minister said that he has good communications with Goncalves, as well, and thinks the latter has some influence.
The Foreign Minister said he thinks that Goncalves has about 25%.
Secretary Vance asked if the Prime Minister sees a coalition emerging in Spain.
The Prime Minister said yes, that Spain needs it. It will be a center coalition, perhaps also including the socialists.
The President said that would make it “broad center”—like the U.S. Democrats trying to occupy as much of the spectrum as possible! He said that it is very pleasant to see the Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister thanked the President.
The President said he had heard that, as the Prime Minister goes around Denmark, people call him by his first name. That shows how much political strength he has!
The meeting concluded at 3:00 p.m.
- Source: Carter Library, National Security Affairs, Brzezinski Material, Subject File, Box 35, MemCons: President: 5/77. Secret. Prepared by Hunter. The meeting was held at Lancaster House.↩
- Reference is to Jørgensen’s March 2 letter to Carter, to which Carter responded in a March 22 letter. (Carter Library, National Security Affairs, Brzezinski Material, President’s Correspondence with Foreign Leaders File, Box 4, Denmark: Anker Henrik Jørgensen, 1/77)↩
- On April 7, Carter announced the results of the administration’s review of issues related to nuclear power and announced that the United States would “continue discussions with supplying and recipient nations alike, of a wide range of international approaches and frameworks that will permit all nations to achieve their energy objectives while reducing the spread of nuclear explosive capability.” (“Statement by President Carter: Nuclear Power Policy,” April 7, 1977; Public Papers: Carter, 1977, pp. 587–588)↩
- On May 8, the London G–7 Summit agreed to study, the terms of reference of the International Fuel Cycle Evaluation. (“International Economic Summit Meeting: Joint Declaration Issued at the Conclusion of the Meeting,” May 8, 1977; Public Papers: Carter, 1977, pp. 819–824)↩
- Telegram 2674 from Copenhagen, May 5, reported that on May 4 Danish Defense Minister Orla Møller signed a letter of offer and acceptance for the F–16 purchase. (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, D770159–0627)↩
- No memorandum of conversation for Vance’s lunch with Jørgensen has been found.↩
- May 16.↩
- See Documents 290 and 310.↩