101. Draft Memorandum of Conversation1
Meeting—Thursday, Nov. 30, 8:45 AM
JC: What are South African attitudes on peace and outside world?
B: Optimum. There will be disillusion with the Russians. B will disappoint the Russians. Mozambique already wants closer economic relations with South Africa. We also opened railroad line to Zambia.
JC: What about Namibia? Will you carry out the UN resolutions?
B: That is our will.
JC: Do you speak for the Prime Minister?
B: Yes. The decision must be up to the people. We can’t conclude the agreement for the people.
JC: After the election,2 when will the UN be there and have election?
B: If the body gets together by Dec. 20, the final decision could be had by end of December.
JC: Cy, when will sanctions be listed?
CV: If there is no decision, during December.
B: It takes 8 days to count the votes. We will do our utmost. If the UN can’t wait a few weeks, there is no use to have good intentions. We accepted in April to have elections this year.
JC: but why can’t you give a specific answer in a month? It could prevent serious sanctions.
B: We will endeavor to do so. The body will meet on Dec. 20.
JC: So can’t you provide within the month.
B: I will speak to the Prime Minister.
JC: We would prefer to avoid sanctions. This may be the last opportunity.
[Page 271]CV: Reach the Waldheims 4 points (?)3
B: We distrust the UN—it supports SWAPO. I cannot sell the UN plan without having the countries of origin of the UN troops.
Discussion of size of UN forces.
CV: Realistic figure would be 4,500.
B: The West never mentioned more than 3,000; now suddenly the UN is talking about 7,500.
JC: What countries would you accept?
B: Indonesia, Morocco, Iran, Sudan
JC: Nigeria?
B: No
CV: Nigeria doesn’t want it. Yugoslavia or Russia might be acceptable.
B: I will check with the Israelis on their experience.
Discussion again of Waldheim’s 4 points.
B: I will try to get the Prime Minister to adopt the 4 points, maybe with some very small changes.
JC: I agree that the UN force should not have some radical elements. Composition more important than numbers. You be flexible on the number; we will help on the composition.
JC: Your relations with Angola?
B: We have had personal contacts. Fourie has been there.
JC: We have found Neto eager to improve relations with the West.
B: It’s also in our interest.
CV: You should send someone soon.
B: I am willing to do it.
__________
B: What about your meeting with the Prime Minister
CV: If there is progress on Namibia.
JC: I am not sure now it will be constructive. Waldheim’s proposals are minimal.
B: I am thinking of a broad discussion of South African problems.
[Page 272]JC: Until Namibia is resolved, I couldn’t do it, but I would like to when it is resolved.
- Source: Carter Library, Plains File, President’s Personal Foreign Affairs File, Box 4, South Africa, Republic of, 3/78–1/80. Secret. According to the President’s Daily Diary, Carter met with Vance, Brzezinski, Brand Fourie, and Roelof Botha. The meeting took place in the Cabinet Room and concluded at 9:35 a.m. (Carter Library, Presidential Materials)↩
- Unilateral elections were held December 4–8. The Democratic Turnhalle Alliance (DTA) won 80 percent of the vote. (Keesing’s Contemporary Archives, 1979, p. 29465)↩
- In telegram 5562 from USUN, December 1, the Mission transmitted Waldheim’s Four Points: “A. South African Government should reiterate its willingness to cooperate in the implementation of Resolution 435; B. SAG should indicate its willingness within month to conclude its consultations with ‘the parties concerned’ on the principles of implementing Res 435 and communicate the results to the SYG; C. South Africa should reaffirm that it retains authority in Namibia pending the implementation of the UN proposals; and D. South Africa will continue consultations with the UN on outstanding points in an effort to resolve them.” (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, D780496–1049)↩