101. Draft Memorandum of Conversation1

Meeting—Thursday, Nov. 30, 8:45 AM

JC: What are South African attitudes on peace and outside world?

B: Optimum. There will be disillusion with the Russians. B will disappoint the Russians. Mozambique already wants closer economic relations with South Africa. We also opened railroad line to Zambia.

JC: What about Namibia? Will you carry out the UN resolutions?

B: That is our will.

JC: Do you speak for the Prime Minister?

B: Yes. The decision must be up to the people. We can’t conclude the agreement for the people.

JC: After the election,2 when will the UN be there and have election?

B: If the body gets together by Dec. 20, the final decision could be had by end of December.

JC: Cy, when will sanctions be listed?

CV: If there is no decision, during December.

B: It takes 8 days to count the votes. We will do our utmost. If the UN can’t wait a few weeks, there is no use to have good intentions. We accepted in April to have elections this year.

JC: but why can’t you give a specific answer in a month? It could prevent serious sanctions.

B: We will endeavor to do so. The body will meet on Dec. 20.

JC: So can’t you provide within the month.

B: I will speak to the Prime Minister.

JC: We would prefer to avoid sanctions. This may be the last opportunity.

[Page 271]

CV: Reach the Waldheims 4 points (?)3

B: We distrust the UN—it supports SWAPO. I cannot sell the UN plan without having the countries of origin of the UN troops.

Discussion of size of UN forces.

CV: Realistic figure would be 4,500.

B: The West never mentioned more than 3,000; now suddenly the UN is talking about 7,500.

JC: What countries would you accept?

B: Indonesia, Morocco, Iran, Sudan

JC: Nigeria?

B: No

CV: Nigeria doesn’t want it. Yugoslavia or Russia might be acceptable.

B: I will check with the Israelis on their experience.

Discussion again of Waldheim’s 4 points.

B: I will try to get the Prime Minister to adopt the 4 points, maybe with some very small changes.

JC: I agree that the UN force should not have some radical elements. Composition more important than numbers. You be flexible on the number; we will help on the composition.

JC: Your relations with Angola?

B: We have had personal contacts. Fourie has been there.

JC: We have found Neto eager to improve relations with the West.

B: It’s also in our interest.

CV: You should send someone soon.

B: I am willing to do it.

__________

B: What about your meeting with the Prime Minister

CV: If there is progress on Namibia.

JC: I am not sure now it will be constructive. Waldheim’s proposals are minimal.

B: I am thinking of a broad discussion of South African problems.

[Page 272]

JC: Until Namibia is resolved, I couldn’t do it, but I would like to when it is resolved.

  1. Source: Carter Library, Plains File, President’s Personal Foreign Affairs File, Box 4, South Africa, Republic of, 3/78–1/80. Secret. According to the President’s Daily Diary, Carter met with Vance, Brzezinski, Brand Fourie, and Roelof Botha. The meeting took place in the Cabinet Room and concluded at 9:35 a.m. (Carter Library, Presidential Materials)
  2. Unilateral elections were held December 4–8. The Democratic Turnhalle Alliance (DTA) won 80 percent of the vote. (Keesing’s Contemporary Archives, 1979, p. 29465)
  3. In telegram 5562 from USUN, December 1, the Mission transmitted Waldheim’s Four Points: “A. South African Government should reiterate its willingness to cooperate in the implementation of Resolution 435; B. SAG should indicate its willingness within month to conclude its consultations with ‘the parties concerned’ on the principles of implementing Res 435 and communicate the results to the SYG; C. South Africa should reaffirm that it retains authority in Namibia pending the implementation of the UN proposals; and D. South Africa will continue consultations with the UN on outstanding points in an effort to resolve them.” (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, D780496–1049)