Office of the Historian

170. Memorandum of Conversation1

Moscow, January 23, 1976, 9:34–11:45 a.m.

PARTICIPANTS

  • USSR:

    • Andrei A. Gromyko, Member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU; Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR
    • Vasiliy V. Kuznetsov, First Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
    • Georgiy M. Korniyenko, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
    • Anatoliy F. Dobrynin, Ambassador to the U.S.
    • Vasiliy G. Makarov, Chef de Cabinet to the Foreign Minister
    • V.G. Komplektov, Acting Chief of USA Dept., MFA
    • Valerian V. Mikhailov, Deputy Chief of USA Dept., MFA
    • Oleg Grinevskiy, Deputy Chief of Middle East Dept., MFA
    • Oleg M. Sokolov Oleg M. Sokolov, Chief of International Affairs, USA Dept., MFA
    • Viktor M. Sukhodrev, Counselor, Second European Dept., MFA (Interpreter)

  • U.S.:

    • Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State
    • Amb. Walter J. Stoessel, Jr., Ambassador to the USSR
    • Helmut Sonnenfeldt, Counselor of the Department
    • William G. Hyland, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
    • Arthur A. Hartman, Assistant Secretary for European Affairs
    • Arthur R. Day, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs
    • Edward F. Fugit, Country Officer, Angola
    • Peter W. Rodman, NSC Staff

SUBJECTS

  • Middle East; Angola; Japan; China; Limitation of New Weapons of Mass Destruction; PNE Negotiation; MBFR

[Omitted here is discussion unrelated to arms control.]

Limitation of New Weapons of Mass Destruction

Gromyko: You know, Dr. Kissinger, the Disarmament Committee in Geneva seems to be working very sluggishly. Maybe we should give it an injection of some sort. The Committee has before it certain new questions to discuss, notably the question we first raised at the UN General Assembly. There was an appropriate resolution passed and now it goes to the Disarmament Committee, that is the limitation of new weapons systems. We know you take a cautious attitude. In fact you even start looking a bit bored when I discuss that subject. But we think it should be discussed.

Kissinger: No, I’m confused whether you mean that no state can develop weapons beyond what it has developed or that no state can develop weapons beyond what we have developed. So we have difficulty giving instructions to our delegation.

Gromyko: Then let us discuss that matter in the Committee and/or parallel with the work of the Committee—bilateral discussion of the matter to discuss various points. But we can’t say that because we take a dim view we can’t discuss it.

Kissinger: Perhaps our Ambassador here could discuss it here with someone you delegate, to get further clarification.

Gromyko: We wouldn’t want the exchange to take the form only of questions addressed to us. We would like perhaps not only to take questions but also to put them.

Kissinger: That is very appropriate. Why don’t we have discussions here in Moscow?

Gromyko: All right.

Kissinger: Stoessel will take care of it.

Gromyko: All right.

[Page 552]

Peaceful Nuclear Explosions (PNE) Negotiation

Kissinger: He’s engaged in discussions on peaceful nuclear explosions.

Gromyko: Let’s discuss.

Kissinger: You went three explosions a year beyond 150 kilotons. And we believe that would make verification impossible. Not to speak of ratification.

Gromyko: What is your proposal?

Kissinger: Our view is to take this up at the review conference in five years. Our understanding is you have no particular use for it now but just don’t want to foreclose the long-term future.

Gromyko: Representatives of the two sides are due to resume on January 27th.

Kissinger: Correct.

Gromyko: They could resume their discussion and perhaps take this up.

Kissinger: We should both keep an eye on these discussions and bring them to a successful conclusion.

Gromyko: There should be a successful conclusion.

[Omitted here is discussion unrelated to arms control.]

  1. Summary: Kissinger and Soviet Foreign Minister Gromyko discussed the limitations of new weapons of mass destruction and the PNE negotiations.

    Source: Ford Library, National Security Adviser, Kissinger Reports on USSR, China, and Middle East Discussions, 1974–1976, Box 1, USSR Memcons and Reports, January 21–23—Kissinger Moscow Trip (3). Secret; Nodis. No drafting information appears on the memorandum. All brackets are in the original except those indicating text omitted by the editors. The meeting took place in the Foreign Ministry’s Tolstoi House. The memorandum is printed in full in Foreign Relations, 1969–1976, volume XVI, Soviet Union, August 1974–November 1976, as Document 258.

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