161. Memorandum of Conversation1

PARTICIPANTS

  • Mauricio Borgonovo Pohl, Minister of Foreign Relations of El Salvador
  • Amb. Dr. Francisco Bertrand Galinda, Ambassador to the U.S.
  • Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State
  • Amb. James F. Campbell, U.S. Ambassador to El Salvador
  • Peter W. Rodman, NSC Staff
  • Neil Seidenman, OPR/LS (interpreter)

[Omitted here is discussion of OAS reform and possible arrangements for Salvadoran access to the U.S. market.]

Borgonovo: I don’t know if you are interested in the conflict between Salvador and Honduras.

Kissinger: I’m under strict instructions not to raise it. But you can raise it. [Laughter] Anything that arises from soccer I’m interested in.

Borgonovo: It’s not from soccer as you know. We are two countries close to each other by family relations. With our pressure of population we in El Salvador were more eager to work. People migrated in Honduras, and because of ability they did better than people that were of the same level. Then they started to expel people from Honduras. Then the soccer games came, but this was only an accident more than anything else. In fact, that conflict broke out and people stayed there. It’s a family fight of resentment. On both sides.

The border problem is about 3–400 years old. It was brought out after the conflict broke out.

Kissinger: Was there a flare-up in 1969?

Borgonovo: Right, that is it. There is a very powerful group which dedicated itself to limits [boundaries] with other countries, in the study of law. There is a group that concerns itself with limits [boundaries] with others.

Our smallness is such that to take one square mile is like taking one eye. To ask us to settle with Honduras by ceding to their demands is asking a lot.

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We feel that at this moment what we have is ours. But they have papers.

Kissinger: What they claimed in 1969....

Borgonovo: We have had since 1884. They say they want 250 square miles but we should settle for 25 square miles.

Kissinger: You don’t want to give them anything?

Borgonovo: No.

Kissinger: But you don’t want any of theirs.

Borgonovo: No.

Kissinger: You want the Demarcation Line of 1969?

Borgonovo: Yes, which is the line of 1884.

We don’t think any outside help is needed.

Kissinger: We’re not going to get involved. We’re not going to bring pressure. The only possibility is I like the scenery so much that I may want to shuttle. [Laughter]

Seriously, you can set your mind at ease. We only hope that both sides will show restraint and not use military force.

Are you thinking of giving up some?

Borgonovo: No, we’re thinking of procedures. To find where the line is. No one will give up anything. Just to find where it is.

Kissinger: I understand.

Amb. Campbell: You’re in bilateral consultations, your two Presidents.

Borgonovo: Yes. They met yesterday and said they want to settle it. So we [Foreign Ministers] have to find a procedure.

Kissinger: You’ll agree on a procedure to establish a demarcation line, whatever it is.

Borgonovo: Right. Eventually.

Kissinger: Once you find it out, that’s it. It’s not a change.

Borgonovo: Right.

Kissinger: That’s an ingenious procedure. We’ll stay out of it. If at any point you think we can be helpful, let us know.

Our Ambassador is a disciplined fellow and not a missionary.

Amb. Campbell: I’m a facilitator.

Kissinger: That’s what we should do.

Borgonovo: We have public opinion.

Kissinger: You can’t appear to yield and they can’t appear to yield their claim. You want procedures where no one seems to yield.

Borgonovo: Where there are no losers.

Rogers: We’ll be asked if it was raised.

Kissinger: We can say we didn’t discuss it.

  1. Summary: Kissinger and Salvadoran Foreign Minister Borgonovo discussed the border dispute between El Salvador and Honduras.

    Source: National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, P820117–0795. Secret; Nodis. The meeting was held in Borgonovo’s suite at the Cariari Hotel. Kissinger met with Central American Foreign Ministers during a stop in San José at the conclusion of a February 16–24 Latin American tour. All brackets are in the original except those indicating text omitted by the editors.