109. Telephone Conversation Between President Johnson and Secretary of Defense McNamara1
[Here follows discussion of an unrelated press statement.]
RSM: but, [we have] a very serious crisis brewing in Cyprus.
LBJ: Some of the reporters were quite critical about my coming down here last night.2 One of these Navy chiefs told me—said, “Here’s a war going on on two or three fronts here and he’s walking off here to play for the weekend.” Now, what’s the best way to answer that?
RSM: Oh, I have seen no evidence of that at all up here and no reports on the tickers of anything like that.
LBJ: No. I just think they were visiting among themselves, but I may get a question along that line this morning. What do you think I ought to say? [pause] Hello?
RSM: Yes, I was just thinking. I think you could say that you were advised by the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense that there was no reason for your continued presence in Washington this weekend.
LBJ: Will you touch that base with Dean then?
RSM: Yes, sir, I will. Well, I know that he felt that way. I will call him, but he and I talked of this last night and we both agree. I’ll call him and tell him.
LBJ: No, no. That’s okay then. Now, what can this bring on as far as we’re concerned in Cyprus?
RSM: Well, I just talked to George Ball two minutes ago about it, and it’s his feeling—and I would certainly share it—that it would be wise to get Labouisse into Geneva3 immediately to talk to Acheson. George had just finished a conversation with Acheson on the telephone,4 hoping that possibly Acheson could make some proposal here, possibly an overt publicized proposal by the U.S. Government as to how the Greeks and the Turks might settle their differences. Unless something like that’s done, it’s very possible the whole place will go up in flames today.
LBJ: All right, then what do we do?
[Page 229]RSM: Well, the first thing to do is to get Labouisse up to Geneva so they can discuss this matter. I say it may go up in flames today, I should really say this weekend. I think we have, maybe, 12 to 48 hours here. So I’m getting an airplane down to Athens to take Labouisse to Geneva, and State is working on some kind of a proposal that might be made, really, along the lines that Acheson has already been proposing, which, in substance, was something that looked as though both the Turks and the Greeks might accept.
LBJ: Why is Labouisse going down there, because he’s the Ambassador to Greece?
RSM: To advise on what the Turks, what the Greeks latest thinking is.
LBJ: What they might do?
RSM: Yes.
LBJ: Alright, now suppose—how does it go up in the flames. The Turks are bombing the island?
RSM: The Turkish planes, as you know, strafed one of the harbors yesterday.
LBJ: Yeah.
RSM: In response, it appears that the Greek Cypriots are attacking Turkish Cypriot towns on Cyprus today. And they have the force at hand to take those towns and destroy the Turkish Cypriots. The Turkish Government is in a state of panic at the moment. Erkin has talked to Hare,5 our Ambassador, and expressed great fear as to what will happen. The Turkish Government just couldn’t sit there and let the Turkish Cypriots on Cyprus be slaughtered. They’d be forced to respond. But they apparently ran this four-sortie attack, four-airplane attack, yesterday without having a clear-cut plan as to how they would respond to a Greek Cypriot response. It’s a perfect illustration of starting something with too little force and without knowing what you’re going do when the other side kicks back.
LBJ: Now, how could we be involved?
RSM: Well, I don’t think we would be involved militarily, Mr. President. But I think that the diplomatic offense that George Ball has in mind is the way we should act.
LBJ: Alright.
[Here follows discussion of military operations in Southeast Asia.]
- Source: Johnson Library, Recordings and Transcripts, Recording of Telephone Conversation Between President Johnson and McNamara, August 8, 1964, 8:35 a.m., Tape 64.01, Side A, PNO 1. No classification marking. The President was in Texas; McNamara was in Washington. This transcript was prepared by the Office of the Historian specifically for this volume.↩
- The President had left Washington at 6:29 p.m. the previous night for the LBJ Ranch. (Ibid., President’s Daily Diary)↩
- See Document 111.↩
- A memorandum of this conversation is in the Johnson Library, Ball Papers, Cyprus.↩
- See Document 104.↩