155. Memorandum of Conversation0
SUBJECT
- Secretary’s Discussion of Population Problems with Foundation Executives
PARTICIPANTS
- Secretary of State
- Mr. John D. Rockefeller, III, Rockefeller Foundation
- Dr. Leona Baumgartner, Assistant Administrator for Human Resources and Social Development—AID
- R.W. Barnett, E/ES
- List of other Participants Attached.1
On November 20 at 5 PM, Mr. John D. Rockefeller 3rd was host at a meeting where Secretary Rusk talked about population problems to about 30 executives of American foundations. The meeting was held at the Studio Apartment of the Radio City Music Hall, 61 West 50th Street, New York City, N.Y.
Mr. Rockefeller introduced the Secretary. He said that he found grounds for discouragement in the growing magnitude and complexity of the population problem, and grounds for encouragement in the apparent growth of responsible interest in achieving some kind of an understanding of its nature, and willingness to explore possible solutions. He said that he believed that private foundations and the government had much to gain from exchanging views on this matter, and expressed his gratitude that the Secretary had consented to participate in a meeting for that purpose.
The Secretary said that the relationship of population trends to possibilities for improved economic and social welfare was, of course, important. He would be influenced by several prejudices, he said, as he proceeded to discuss the problem with the particular audience he was facing.
- First, as a former member of the community of foundation executives,2 he would feel particularly sensitive about the impropriety of anyone in government intruding upon the trust which they bore as executives of private foundations.
- Second, problems posed by population trends were urgent, but other problems were urgent too. He would make no effort to influence foundations’ decisions on priorities of urgency.
- Third, he was skeptical about the need at this stage of coordination of work in this field. The need was initiation and an expansion of activity in which “everybody could pitch in”.
The Secretary said that something like an “explosion” of interest in population problems seemed to be taking place. He believed that the government had had something to do with this. For example, over the last three or four years, there had been a shift from short to longer term planning of programs to meet the needs of aid-receiving countries. This change in approach brought to the fore, for many countries, the importance of taking into account demographic trends.
It had been said that five countries in the world now have population policies. It was likely that other countries will be wanting to follow suit.
The Secretary considered the obvious increase in United Nations interest in the population problem to be a reflection of its members’ growing concern with the matter; the UN seemed to be moving now from activities of a purely informational character to “action” programs, i.e. technical assistance.
United States internal political considerations, the Secretary said, are not really central to the US Government’s formulation of ways to act effectively on the population problem. This was not to say, he observed, that population policy was not a sensitive issue. It was. However, it was a sensitive issue in other countries as well, and sensitivities were involved in countries’ dealings with each other. The heart of the matter lay in the fact that for quite a few countries rates of population growth seemed to cancel prospects for improvement of economic and social welfare, despite intensive efforts to promote economic development by savings and foreign aid. Economic development is, the Secretary said, a terrifying challenge for native leaders of these countries. Many of them had argued that the growth of strength and prosperity in their countries was frustrated by colonial administrators. With this authority now removed, native leaders must make headway in proving their capacity to show economic and social progress, or be swept aside in favor of others who are promising that they have the capacity to do so by other means. The Secretary declared his continued conviction that less-developed countries can achieve success with free institutions but he recognized that failures could cause resort to alternatives.
Addressing himself specifically to what government and foundations can do in this situation, the Secretary dwelt first upon the role of government. Government can help to create and keep alive continuing interest in the relation of population changes to economic and social development. If asked for information, advice, or assistance on population problems, the government can respond to requests. The government can keep in contact with private organizations. It can do more research of its [Page 339] own. The Secretary’s own guess was that the National Institutes of Health would be doing more research. Government needs, however, he said, the stimulus of ideas, and it needs the research which private organizations produce. Government cannot and should not crusade.
If and when a foundation develops an interest in the population problem, it should decide for itself which of its phases it is best equipped to take hold of. Foundation experience over the past thirty years or so can cast some light on possible fields of practical activity. There remains much room for expansion of old activity and exploration of new. The Government is not “overwhelmed” by the difficulties which are sometimes associated with the political sensitivities about this problem; there are needed things to be done by both government and private organizations. We need not fear doing them.
The Secretary then threw the meeting open for general discussion. In response to questions from the audience:
He replied to Mr. Rockefeller’s inquiry about how “communication” might be improved among all those interested in population problems by saying that he hoped that there could emerge a number of centers of information where a pooling of knowledge and of reports about general activities could have some influence on decisions. Dr. Baumgartner (AID Assistant Administrator for Human Resources and Social Development) expressed the hope that her office in AID could, over time, serve as another point of contact.
Responding to a question by Mr. Kenneth Thompson (Rockefeller Foundation) about the possibility of “Luke” Battle calling a regional conference for Africa, Mr. Barnett (E/ES) summarized the present activities of the economic commissions for Asia and the Far East, Latin America and, specifically, Africa. He observed that it was the Department’s view that often effective results were produced when population problems were talked about multilaterally amongst countries with common political, economic, cultural and religious problems. It was desirable, whenever possible, to eliminate the national imprint from information and advice about population problems, and particularly so in Latin America.
The Secretary stressed the importance for Americans to respond to requests of other countries where population problems were concerned. The US should not advocate specific solutions, and the US Government officially must make clear that any programs which other countries may, by their own decisions, consider to be desirable are, in fact, their own. He mentioned risks of misunderstanding and possible future recrimination which could flow from deviation from these rules. Population, he said, is not a general problem. It is a problem in specific countries and within those countries in specific localities. Factual information should be assembled and scrutinized case by case. The Secretary deplored the use of slogans to cover blanket solutions of problems. He deplored, by way of [Page 340] illustration, the uncritical advocates of undifferentiated “land reform” and said that population problems did not lend themselves to uniform solutions any more than land problems.
The Secretary warned his audience particularly of the risk of promising too much to countries which may have asked for help. The awakening of excessive expectations and then their disappointment could set back progress in this field for 20-30 years, he said. Dr. Baumgartner strongly reaffirmed the Secretary’s warning not to promise too much.
President Heald, of the Ford Foundation, expressed satisfaction at the good relationship which had been established between his foundation and the Department. Mr. Lamont duPont Copeland spoke about the desirability of American efforts to bring the population problem to the attention of “thought” leaders of foreign countries.
Mr. Kenneth Thompson, of the Rockefeller Foundation, expressed some doubt that the US political problem was not a greater impediment to activity in the field of population problems than the Secretary had suggested. At the Secretary’s request, Mr. Barnett referred to the interest of the National Catholic Welfare Conference in expansion of research on human fertility; Mr. Barnett referred to Pope Pius XII’s approval of the “rhythm method” as a technique of family regulation and the Pope’s declared hope that science could make that method more secure. There was Roman Catholic interest in other aspects of the demographic problem. There might be wider areas of agreement than was commonly supposed.
Dr. Baumgartner, speaking personally, said that during a trip last year through the Far East she had observed the difference between frank discussion of medical information on all other subjects and reluctance to talk about techniques of family regulation. She wanted to see this ended, and held out hope that it soon would be.
The Secretary told his audience that he was certain that there would be a continuing and increasing interest in the population problem.
At six p.m. the meeting was adjourned in order to listen to the President’s televised press conference.3
- Source: Department of State, Secretary’s Memoranda of Conversation: Lot 65 D 330. Limited Official Use. Drafted by Barnett and approved in S on November 29.↩
- Not printed.↩
- Secretary Rusk was President of the Rockefeller Foundation 1952-1960.↩
- For text, see Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: John F. Kennedy, 1962, pp. 830-838.↩