Foreign Relations of the United States, 1958–1960, Indonesia, Volume XVII

258. Memorandum of Conversation⁰

Washington, May 19, 1960.

SUBJECT

• Indonesian Situation; Indonesian-Netherlands Relations

PARTICIPANTS

• Dr. Subandrio, Foreign Minister of Indonesia
• The Acting Secretary, Mr. Dillon
• Mr. Parsons, Assistant Secretary for Far Eastern Affairs
• Mr. Mein, Director, Office of Southwest Pacific Affairs

The Minister said he was glad to have this opportunity to visit Washington since there were no special problems between us. He said that although we may have trouble at times understanding developments in Indonesia and we may wonder whether any progress is being made, he thought that from the Indonesian viewpoint they continue to make gradual progress. He said there had been a gradual economic decline resulting from changes which have occurred and also from the actions against the Dutch and Chinese but that they are prepared to accept these conditions.

The Minister said that in the political field they have certain ideas which they want to work out. There is no longer a political vacuum as existed between 1950 and 1957 and they now have certain basic conceptions of what is necessary for the people. He said they were aware of the Communist problem and danger, but the handling of the situation took a certain amount of maneuvering. The Minister said that as a result of the trip and of developments in Indonesia, President Sukarno is aware that this is not the time to play politics. The Minister referred to the dissolution and formation of Parliament as not being very significant. As to Parliament, he said, “we do not attach much importance” anyway since if the Parliament as appointed does not work out, the President and Nasution can always dissolve it again. This procedure, however, will enable them to extend the interval before the next elections, which he thought desirable. This would (1) permit the development of new personalities in the parties which have been dominated by the old leaders who gained prominence in the revolution, and (2) give time to the non-Communist parties to organize themselves so as to establish a balance between the Communists, who are the best organized and financed party in Indonesia, and the non-Communist parties, and (3) would also permit the creation by Sukarno of a national feeling in Indonesia in case anything happens to him and which he believes none of the old leaders can accomplish at the present time. The Minister said that whether this would require more than one stage is not clear, but that is the basis for the National Front. No one, he said, including the armed forces, wants any outside domination and the new situation will permit Indonesia to absorb and digest any foreign ideas.

The Minister referred to the actions taken by the Indonesian Government against the alien Chinese and stated that he was standing firm in this matter. If the problem is not solved now, he said, it probably cannot be solved. He was apparently quite shaken by a statement made to him in Peiping last October when the Chinese threatened to send a warship to protect the Chinese in Indonesia.

Another problem, he said, which is not of direct U.S.-Indonesian interest, is that of the relations between Indonesia and the Netherlands. He said that if asked why the Indonesians are so upset by the forthcoming visit of the Karel Doorman, it is not the mere sending of a ship but more the policy statement issued by the Netherlands Government referring to the aggressive acts of Indonesia. He said that Indonesia has given us and others repeated assurances that they do not intend to use force for the settlement of this problem, but that if asked now, he cannot make a public statement along these lines because the Dutch have put him on the defensive. There are some military groups in Indonesia that do want a showdown on the West New Guinea problem, but Sukarno and others do not want this. He said he did not know what the United States could do in this situation but he thought that if the Karel Doorman were not sent, it would be of great help not only to Indonesia but also to the general situation in the area. He said that the Dutch have referred to “infiltrations” of West New Guinea by Indonesians (which he did not deny), but he said that if there should be an uprising in West New Guinea, it would not be the result of such infiltrations but rather action by local forces. He said that not only in West New Guinea but also in the other Dutch colonies there are local groups who would like to see a change in the status of the area. Contributing to this desire on the part of some local groups, of course, is the progress which has been made in Indonesia as compared to West New Guinea. The Minister said that the Government had replied to our Aide-Mémoire¹ and had restated its assurances, but a public statement at this time would be impossible since it would appear to have been made under U.S. pressure.

The Acting Secretary said that we were very pleased with the Aide-Mémoire given us by the Indonesian Government in Djakarta, which was very helpful even if it could not be made public. The Acting Secretary said that we had had preliminary talks with the Dutch. He did not think there was much chance of cancellation by the Dutch since they had announced the trip. The Dutch had made it quite clear that they had no aggressive intentions and that the measure was purely defensive. Although the first announcement was unfortunate, there is a chance that they will make their position clear by a further statement. The general policy of the Dutch is to be defensive and not to aggravate the situation, and we are trying to do what we can to ameliorate the situation. The Minister asked whether there was any chance of the Dutch correcting the statement. The Acting Secretary said he did not think there was much chance of this, but that we hoped that further statements would clarify the matter.

The Minister said he was being pressed by some quarters in Djakarta to break diplomatic relations with the Netherlands. In his opinion this is not desirable since among the other consequences would be action against the remaining Dutch interests in Indonesia, against Shell, etc., which would set in a chain reaction. He reiterated that in this case it is not only that Indonesia would appreciate the assistance to Indonesia in having the trip cancelled but that cancellation would be of help to the situation in the area. He said that in all fairness, however, he must state that preparations were under way for severing diplomatic relations but he sincerely hoped this would not be necessary. Again the Minister emphasized that some restatement on the part of the Dutch would be helpful since it is not so much the sending of the vessels as the tenor of the statement made by the Dutch that has been harmful. The timing of the visit is also bad, especially in view of the actions which the Government was taking against the Chinese and the effect this was having on the Communist Party. He asked again whether from the U.S. viewpoint there would not be any chance of correcting the statement. The Acting Secretary reiterated that he did not think so but he hoped that further statements would be helpful and would tend to play down the issue. The Minister said he also hoped this would be the case and he also hoped that Mr. Luns would have some influence in the situation and be able to improve the climate, since he had not been present at the time the statement was made.

0. Source: Department of State, Central Files, 033.9811/5–1960. Secret. Drafted by Mein on May 24. Approved in U on June 6. Dillon was briefed for this meeting with Subandio in a memorandum from Parsons dated May 18. (Ibid., SPA Files: Lot 63 D 436, Briefing File) For memoranda of conversation between Subandrio and Dillon, Parsons, and Mein, and between Sukarno and Governor Brown of California and Jones, see the Supplement.
1. See Document 256.