89. Memorandum of Conversation0
SUBJECT
- Polish-U.S. Cooperation in Field of Agriculture
PARTICIPANTS
- United States
- Secretary Benson, Department of Agriculture
- Assistant Secretary Miller
- Edmund S. Glenn—LS
- Poland
- Minister of Agriculture Ochab
- Vice Minister of Agriculture Gucwa
- Ambassador Spasowski
- Prof. Dembinski, Polish Ministry of Agriculture
Secretary Benson greeted his guests and apologized for his fatigue due to having spent the night on a plane.
Mr. Ochab said that a Secretary is supposed to be an institution as much as a man and unfortunately people who frame constitutions never take physical fatigue into consideration. Mr. Ochab further thanked the United States for the invitation addressed to him and for the care expended on him and his party during his trip in the United States. His contacts with American farmers have greatly improved his understanding [Page 252] of American agriculture, from which he hopes that Poland will be able to learn many lessons.
Mr. Benson thanked Mr. Ochab for his kind opinion about American agriculture. Everything which we know is open and at the disposal of our Polish guests. Mr. Benson also thanked Mr. Ochab for the hospitality which he had received in Poland.1
Mr. Ochab renewed his thanks for the organization of the trip which all of the members of the Polish party found interesting, useful and of a nature to improve the cooperation, the exchanges and the friendship between the two countries. One of the main impressions derived by the Polish visitors is one of respect for the American farmers—of whom Mr. Benson is such an excellent example—much of the riches of the United States are due to the farmers’ ability to work hard and intelligently; this unquestionably is due to a large extent to the efforts of the Department of Agriculture in educating farmers in the best methods available to contemporary agriculture. Of course, the American Department of Agriculture is also faced with some problems which may not be easy to solve; solutions, however, will certainly be found in the future. Likewise, Mr. Ochab hopes that American experts will be able to help Poland with her extremely difficult agricultural problems.
Secretary Benson said that he also had been impressed with the spirit of the farmers and the agricultural specialists of Poland who certainly are doing everything they can in order to improve the situation. He himself had seen Poland under the most difficult circumstances, having visited that country in 1946, and at that time, as today, he had been impressed by the ability of the Polish people to work hard, to be thrifty and to suffer the greatest hardships because of their love of freedom. Of course, his visits have not made him an authority on the questions of Polish agriculture, but they did make him a friend of Poland. He fully understands the difficulty faced by farmers on extremely small exploitations [sic].
Mr. Ochab said that the Poles remembered the devoted and efficient help given to them by Mr. Benson in 1946 when he was working for the relief of peoples in Europe. They appreciate his feelings of friendship. Mr. Ochab had already described some of the great difficulties faced by Polish agriculture and the differences between the circumstances in the two countries. Because of those differences, not all of the practices of American agriculture can be adapted to Polish conditions. Nevertheless, there are many things which the Polish group has learned, some of which it will be able to apply in Poland. Because many [Page 253] of the difficulties faced by Polish agriculture are due to the smallness of the Polish farms, solutions cannot be found exclusively in the field of agriculture but have to be tied up to the general economic development of Poland. Only development of industry in Poland will be able to absorb the excess of the Polish agricultural population and therefore lead step by step towards an increase in the average size of farms up to the point where they may become rationally utilized.
Secretary Benson said that he did not consider himself an expert on the problems of Polish agriculture. He agreed, however, with Mr. Ochab that both industrial and agricultural progress should go hand in hand. In so far as opinions about the best way in which agriculture can be managed are concerned, Secretary Benson emphasized his strong belief in the usefulness of freedom of decision, which, together with professional competence, is the best way in which individual farmers can contribute to progress. In addition to freedom of decision on the part of farmers it is also important to have free markets for agricultural commodities.
Minister Ochab remarked that the basic points of view of the two participants are probably different and that it would take too long to cover all such basic differences. In so far as the situation in Poland is concerned, everyone will agree that yields could be better if the size of the individual farm holdings were not so small. In so far as American agriculture is concerned, the Polish party obtained the impression that its wealth is due primarily to the professional competence of the farmers and their ability to accomplish the maximum through hard work. Polish farmers could learn much from this point of view. Unquestionably, however, the larger size of American farms is also a contributing factor. From that point of view, the United States is fortunate not to have 33 farms per 240 acres, on an average. The Polish Government hopes to improve the situation and while a situation such as the American one is not in sight, there is at least hope that a situation such as that of Czechoslovakia, East Germany or the Netherlands might be arrived at step by step. The sympathy and perhaps even the help of the USDA would be most encouraging.
Secretary Benson promised not only a spirit of friendship but also as much help as it is possible to offer.
Minister Ochab thanked the Secretary and said that the Polish group would present a number of suggestions on the basis of the better understanding of American agriculture which it had obtained during the journey. In the first place, Poland would be happy to receive suggestions as to the manner in which mechanization in Poland could be accelerated. This question naturally ties in with that of investments and of the increase in mutual trade. Poland expects to increase the yields of its agriculture and become an exporter and not only an importer of agricultural commodities. One of the problems which Poland has to face, however, is [Page 254] lack of animal feed. This brings Mr. Ochab to a second concrete point. There are at present certain difficulties concerning the further imports by Poland of American agricultural surpluses. These difficulties will certainly be overcome. Other difficulties, however, may persist, in particular in so far as the Polish possibilities to pay for its purchases are concerned. Even those difficulties, however, may find a solution in an increase of mutual trade. Another point must be mentioned, however, and that is that it would be of a great interest to Poland, a country with a planned economy, to obtain information about American intentions on a long-range basis. No binding undertakings are called for, but simply reliable information in such a way that Poland could plan for several years in advance. This is important in particular for rough grains to be used for animal feed. A third concrete suggestion is one dealing with the exchange of agricultural experts; American experts could show the Poles how to increase yields in some specific areas, in particular in the poultry industry and in the field of fattening beef cattle, in particular through the addition of urea to the feed. The question of the administrative steps which would be needed in order to obtain the advice of American experts would be studied in detail. However, Mr. Ochab hopes that the idea will be capable of implementation.
Mr. Ochab then indicated that agriculture was administered in Poland on a bipartisan basis and requested the Secretary to give the floor to Vice Minister Gucwa, a representative of the Peasants’ Party. Vice Minister Gucwa confirmed the great difficulties of Polish agriculture in the questions of animal feed and in particular the lack of sources of protein. Polish experts are very much interested in solutions arrived at by American farmers in these fields. The situation of agriculture in Poland is quite different from that in the United States, nevertheless, learning how similar problems were solved in the United States would be of a very great value. Another point of great interest is the question of the manufacturing of feed mixtures. A third one is that of hybridization of poultry, both for meat and egg production. Poland would need information and possibly even some breeding stock.
Secretary Benson said that both what the Minister and the Vice Minister said would be studied with great interest by the USDA. In so far as technical assistance is concerned, everything that exists in written form in the United States is at the disposal of the Poles. Polish experts are free to supplement this type of information by coming to the United States and observing American work on the spot. The question of sending American experts to Poland would have to be discussed more in detail.
Minister Ochab said that the help of the USDA would be appreciated. Poland is right now taking only a first step in the direction of improving its agricultural methods. More steps, however, would follow [Page 255] and Poland would attempt to follow all those American methods which can be applied, given the change in circumstances. Minister Ochab further apologized for taking so much of the Secretary’s time in presenting the difficulties with which Polish agriculture is faced. He realizes that American agriculture also has difficulties to surmount, though they may not be of the same nature. It seems that overproduction rather than underproduction is the Secretary’s problem. This problem is not as bad as the first one and on the whole he felt envy for the American counterparts when he learned that many of the grain storage bins he observed during his journey through the United States belonged to the United States Government, as do the commodities stored in them.
Secretary Benson noted that both statesmen appeared to have their troubles. The increase in surpluses in the United States was primarily a matter of prices which in turn was a matter of legislation. It is a question which the American Government hopes to solve as it certainly hopes to get rid of government-owned warehouses because it would be better to store grain on the farm. The present situation is not one which can be allowed to continue. In the meantime, however, the USDA would like to help Poland with her problems and ask for some additional suggestions of the ways in which this could be done.
Minister Ochab said that he had mentioned already some concrete cases of possible help. He would insist, however, once more on the need for longer-range planning. Nothing binding is required from the United States Government, only some precise information in such a way as to enable the Polish Government to plan for 1959, 1960, etc. It is clear that no answer can be given to that question in this conversation; however, the agricultural experts of the Polish Embassy, Professors Lychowski and Iwaszkiewicz would keep themselves at the disposal of their counterparts in the USDA.
Secretary Benson agreed with the need for longer-range planning provided the necessary flexibility is not disregarded.
Minister Ochab expressed satisfaction and prepared to take his leave to keep an appointment with Vice President Nixon.