58. Memorandum of Conversation0
SUBJECT
- Discussion Concerning Gomulka’s Speeches during his Visit to the Soviet Union and after his Return to Warsaw
PARTICIPANTS
- Mr. Jozef Winiewicz, Polish Deputy Foreign Minister
- Mr. Romuald Spasowski, Polish Ambassador
- Under Secretary Herter
- Mr. Kohler, Deputy Assistant Secretary, EUR
- Albert W. Sherer, Jr.—EE
Mr. Winiewicz opened the conversation by explaining that he had been at the UN for six weeks and would be returning to Warsaw next week, but before returning home, he wished to come to Washington to express his respect to Mr. Herter and to inform him of the firm intention of the Polish Government to continue to strive for improvement of relations with the United States.
Mr. Herter replied that he hoped the Deputy Foreign Minister would not mind if he took advantage of this opportunity to express to the Polish Government U.S. disappointment concerning the inaccurate [Page 151] and hostile statements made by Mr. Gomulka during his recent trip to the Soviet Union and upon his return to Warsaw.1 Mr. Herter said that he was sure that Mr. Winiewicz would understand that such severe castigation of the United States by Mr. Gomulka did not make our relations any easier. The Under Secretary continued to the effect that the United States is entirely familiar with the difficulties of the present Polish situation but that we believed some of Gomulka’s statements went beyond the necessities required by current pressures and realities.
Mr. Winiewicz replied that there has been no change in Polish policy and that his Government continues to desire closer economic and cultural relations with the United States. He emphasized, however, that such relations must operate within the framework of the Polish alliance with the Soviet Union and the realities of the present international situation. He said that as a small nation Poland wished a relaxation of tensions and that its situation was made more difficult when tensions increased, as they had recently in different parts of the world. He said that he hoped Mr. Gomulka’s trip could be viewed in this light and also as a return visit for the visit of Mr. Voroshilov to Poland a few months ago.2 Mr. Winiewicz said, however, that in all frankness it was necessary to acknowledge that the policies of the two governments with respect to Germany are completely different. He said that, since six million Poles died as a result of German aggression in World War II, the Poles have an emotional and psychological reaction to Germany. In addition, however, the Poles consider that the present policies of West Germany constitute a serious security problem for Poland.
Mr. Herter replied that the German Federal Republic is a NATO partner and it is difficult for us to believe that anyone can consider NATO as an aggressive body. The history of NATO and its organizational structure show that it is simply a defensive organization. Also, Mr. Winiewicz should know Americans well enough to understand that the United States would not join any aggressive bloc; Americans would prefer to be left alone to develop their country as they wish. Circumstances beyond our control have forced us to assume responsibilities we do not want and we resent it when the assumption of such responsibilities results in our being accused of imperialism. Mr. Winiewicz interrupted at this point to state that Americans sometimes misinterpret what is meant by the term “imperialism” and, although he did not want to enter into a long discussion of the term, he said that in Marxian parlance it is simply applied to a certain stage of capitalism.
[Page 152]Mr. Winiewicz then stated that Mr. Rapacki’s discussions with Foreign Minister Lange in Norway and the Canadian Minister of External Affairs at the UN had led to a second version of the Rapacki Plan,3 which is designed to reduce tension in Central Europe. He said that the Poles consider the revised plan of utmost importance in view of such extreme statements as that of West German Defense Minister Strauss in Regensburg on November 9, when he said that anyone who would support the Rapacki Plan was a potential war criminal. He continued by saying that such statements have created an extremely tense situation in Central Europe, which makes it practically impossible for small nations to have any freedom of movement. (Mr. Herter commented at this point that he wished the smaller countries to the south of Poland could have greater freedom of movement.)
Returning to the subject of U.S.-Polish relations, Mr. Winiewicz said that these relations over the last two years could be described in positive terms and he hoped that this would continue. Mr. Herter replied that Mr. Winiewicz knows a great deal about how our Government operates, and he should realize that hostile speeches present real difficulties for us.4
Mr. Winiewicz then turned to the subject of the recent visit of the Polish leaders to the United States and expressed gratitude for the hospitable treatment they had received.5 He said he hoped there would be a return visit to Poland within a few months and expressed the opinion that by such means we could understand each other better. As far as the Polish side is concerned, they are working every day toward this end.
In conclusion, Mr. Winiewicz pointed out that many newspaper men were waiting for him outside the Under Secretary’s office and he intended to say no more than that this had been a courtesy visit. He would certainly, however, report what Mr. Herter had to say to his Government.
When parting, Mr. Winiewicz expressed again the thought that the modified Rapacki Plan contained some very important ideas and he hoped it would be sincerely considered by the United States. Mr. Herter replied that he had only seen press reports concerning the modified plan and that it was our understanding it would be officially presented in due course. Mr. Winiewicz acknowledged this was so and said that the press had contained only a draft outline and that more details would be set forth in the official presentation of the modified plan.
- Source: Department of State, Central Files, 748.13/11–1458. Confidential. Drafted by Sherer on November 14, initialed by Sherer and Kohler, and approved by Herter.↩
- See footnote 2, Document 56.↩
- Marshal Kliment Y. Voroshilov, Soviet Chief of State, visited Poland for a week beginning April 17 to participate in the 13th anniversary celebration of the Polish-Soviet Friendship Treaty, which was signed on April 21, 1945.↩
- See Part 1, Document 12.↩
- On November 19, Kohler reiterated to Spasowski U.S. displeasure over Gomulka’s statements during his visit to the Soviet Union and upon his return to Warsaw. The memorandum of this conversation is in Department of State, Central Files, 611.48/11–1958.↩
- See Documents 56 and 57.↩