122. Memorandum of Conversation0
FOREIGN MINISTERS MEETING
Washington, D.C., April 12–14, 1960
SUBJECT
- Khrushchev Visit to France and De Gaulle Visit to London
PARTICIPANTS
- The Secretary
- M. Couve de Murville, French Minister for Foreign Affairs
- M. Hervé Alphand, French Ambassador
- Mr. Foy D. Kohler, EUR
- Mr. Robert H. McBride, WE
After a brief reference to the instability of the political situation in Italy, M. Couve de Murville proceeded to discuss with the Secretary the Khrushchev visit to France along the lines he had previously briefed Ambassador Houghton.1 He stressed there were no results to the De Gaulle–Khrushchev discussions and concluded these represented a further part of the classical East-West dialogue. Disarmament, Germany and Berlin, aid to underdeveloped countries, possible embargoes on arms deliveries, and the African situation had been the subjects of discussion. He said Khrushchev had mentioned two years as the period for an interim Berlin settlement, and this of course posed the issue of where we would be after two years if we accepted an interim arrangement. Couve opined that it would be satisfactory provided our rights remained untouched after the termination of an interim settlement. In any event he did not believe we should go beyond the Geneva proposals of July 28, 1959.2 The Secretary and Couve agreed that the Soviets would open the Summit Conference by presenting again their German peace treaty proposal, and repeat their belief that the German question was one to be settled by the two Germanies. They agreed that thereupon the Soviets would indicate that, failing all else, they would reluctantly be obliged to sign a separate peace treaty with East Germany.
The Secretary asked if during the De Gaulle–Khrushchev talks, the question of Germany’s eastern frontiers had been mentioned. Couve replied in the affirmative and said that De Gaulle had repeated his previously publicized view that the present eastern frontier of Germany should remain fixed at the Order-Neisse. He said that in the context of a statement that all German boundaries should remain unchanged. He specifically referred to his opposition to Anschluss with Austria or changing the German-Czech frontier.
Couve discussed briefly his negotiations with Gromyko over the communiqué.3 He made three points, first that Gromyko had added language to the French draft stressing that disarmament was the number one problem in the world. He said the French gladly accepted this suggestion. However, he had been less keen on the Soviet references to the peace treaty which had been added as well as language regarding a European security system.
[Page 307]In the disarmament discussion, Couve noted that De Gaulle had raised with the Soviets the question of nuclear disarmament in terms which he was aware we did not like, i.e., that stress should be laid on eliminating nuclear weapons and the means of their delivery, i.e., missile systems. Couve said Khrushchev had added to De Gaulle’s suggestions both airplanes and submarines. He said the French had concluded from Khrushchev’s emphasis on planes that perhaps the Soviet missile development was not so far along as Khrushchev had publicly stressed, and that they retained a fear of manned aircraft. Khrushchev had repeated his insistence on the abolition of foreign bases in general.
Finally, there had been a discussion of the Communist Chinese situation. Couve said Khrushchev had said Communist China was “a friendly country” and there were no particular outstanding problems between China and the Soviet Union. Couve said he thought this was probably true now and that the China problem was really one for the future. The Secretary agreed that the real difficulties with China lay ahead. Couve said Khrushchev had stressed that China did not have any expansionist tendencies though he had also mentioned the great population increase in that country.
On the British visit, Couve said the British Government had done a magnificent job with the arrangements, and that De Gaulle had been particularly touched by the depth of the public demonstration which the British had made. He said it had been a great popular success in both countries. The Secretary congratulated Couve on the excellent speech which De Gaulle had made to Parliament in Westminster Hall.4 It was agreed that an effort should be made so that De Gaulle’s speech to the U.S. Congress later in the month could be made in the same fashion, without interruption for translation.
Finally, Couve mentioned that De Gaulle was not anxious nor in a hurry to repay the Khrushchev visit, and that the French return visit would probably occur in the spring of 1961. De Gaulle did not want to go to the Soviet Union this year. The Secretary indicated he agreed the spring of next year would be a better time. There was then a brief discussion of certain aspects of summit tactics along the lines of the earlier tripartite meeting on this subject.
- Source: Department of State, Central Files, 396.1–PA/4–1260. Confidential. Drafted by McBride, initialed by Kohler, and approved by S on April 20. The conversation took place in Secretary Herter’s office. A brief summary of this conversation was transmitted to Paris in telegram 4316, April 13 at 3:46 p.m. (Ibid., Conference Files: Lot 64 D 559, CF 1625)↩
- See Documents 106 and 108.↩
- See vol. VIII, Document 488.↩
- For text of the joint Franco-Soviet communiqué, April 3, see American Foreign Policy: Current Documents, 1960, pp. 396–398, or Embree, Soviet Union and the German Question, pp. 141–143.↩
- For text of De Gaulle’s address to both Houses of Parliament, April 7, see the Times, April 8, 1960, p. 8.↩