Office of the Historian

119. Memorandum of Conversation0

US/Del/MC/21
Washington, April 12, 1960, 11 a.m.

FOREIGN MINISTERS MEETING

Washington, D.C., April 12–14, 1960

SUBJECT

  • De Gaulle Visit to London
[Page 291]

PARTICIPANTS

  • United States
    • Secretary Herter
    • Under Secretary Dillon
    • Mr. Merchant
    • Mr. Kohler
    • Mr. Farley
    • Mr. Swihart
  • United Kingdom
    • Foreign Secretary Lloyd
    • Ambassador Caccia
    • Lord Hood
    • Sir Anthony Rumbold
    • H.C. Hainworth
    • S.J.G. Cambridge
    • A.C.I. Samuels

Mr. Lloyd said that normally after a visit such as De Gaulle’s,1 he would have written the Secretary about it. Inasmuch, however, as he was to be shortly on this side, and also as he had given “Jock” Whitne a run-down, he had awaited until now to go into more detail. De Gaulle said that with respect to the Summit and the disarmament field, we ought to start with rockets and strategic aircraft. He suggested this to Khrushchev who thought it was a good idea. De Gaulle suggested also that at the Summit we should endeavor to reach agreement as to the control of means of delivery and the establishment of some sort of control commission. Apparently De Gaulle envisaged some means of inspection to make it impossible to place a missile in an aircraft. The Secretary remarked this would seem to require that an inspector be on each aircraft and, for that matter, on every ship at sea. Mr. Lloyd confessed that he could not easily see the value to all of this, but he wished us to know that when De Gaulle discussed this matter in London, Harold Macmillan suggested that De Gaulle discuss his ideas further with the President, when he comes to Washington. The Foreign Secretary reported that De Gaulle said that Khrushchev had talked a great deal about Germany and that De Gaulle had understood that Khrushchev would be favorably disposed to some sort of two-year interim settlement of the Berlin problem. If the West were unable to agree, however, then Khrushchev would sign a treaty with the GDR. Khrushchev was fuzzy whether the latter represented an ultimatum or not, but Khrushchev did say that he did not see how the West could prevent his signing such a treaty. De Gaulle felt that Khrushchev was a politician who did depend on some sort of public support. It was De Gaulle’s feeling that at the Summit, it would be desirable to reach first some agreement about disarmament. There was some discussion between De Gaulle and Khrushchev about the supply of arms to other areas, but it was most vague. Mr. Lloyd felt that De Gaulle has come pretty far along in the field of disarmament and feels that Khrushchev might drop the Berlin issue for definite results in the disarmament field. The Secretary [Page 292] inquired whether there had been any discussion about cooperating in aid to the underdeveloped countries. Mr. Lloyd said there was very little. Mr. Lloyd felt it was a good thing that the meeting between De Gaulle and Khrushchev had taken place and that De Gaulle will now have less of a chip on his shoulder. According to De Gaulle, Khrushchev seemed ill at ease whenever the subject of China was mentioned.

  1. Source: Department of State, Conference Files: Lot 64 D 559, CF 1624. Secret. Drafted by Swihart and approved by M, U, and S on April 19, 20, and 21, respectively. The meeting took place in Secretary Herter’s office. The Foreign Ministers also discussed briefly 13 other topics. Memoranda of these parts of the conversation (US/Del/MC/10–23) are ibid.↩
  2. For two other accounts of De Gaulle’s visit to the United Kingdom April 5–8, see Macmillan, Pointing the Way, pp. 193–194, and De Gaulle, Mémoires, pp. 246–250.↩