Foreign Relations of the United States, 1958–1960, Volume V, Microfiche Supplement, American Republics

CO–29. Memorandum of Conversation, by the Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs (Rubottom)¹

Washington, April 6, 1960

SUBJECT

• Call on the President by President Lleras Camargo

PARTICIPANTS

• The President
• President Lleras Camargo of Colombia
• The Secretary Ambassador Carlos Sanz de Santamaría
• Ambassador Dempster McIntosh
• Assistant Secretary Rubottom

President Lleras Camargo greeted the President and thanked him for the pleasant occasion of the dinner and musical program the night before. The President thought that Bernstein’s music had been very good, especially his rendition of Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue, a favorite of the President’s entire family.

The President said that he had just been talking to the Secretary of Commerce and members of the latter’s staff about certain problems connected with the enormously expensive public highway construction program in the United States. He referred to certain misunderstandings on the part of the Congress regarding that portion of the cost to be borne by the municipalities through which the highways will pass. He made joking reference to the problems of the Executive’s relationships with the Congress “in any real democracy.” President Lleras agreed and added that he had the same problems with the additional factor of having to obtain a two-thirds majority for his programs, in a Congress which under the “parity” plan was fifty percent Liberal and fifty percent conservative. Ambassador McIntosh referred to the great prestige of President Lleras as being the principal reason why the “parity” plan was functioning. President Lleras seemed to doubt that the plan would last the full 16 years foreseen in its inception since the country may insist on returning sooner to the rule of the majority.

The President recalled his philosophical discussions with Secretary Dulles on how our own system of government might be changed constructively, incorporating some of the best in the parliamentary system. They had finally decided that they would have to start fresh, it being very difficult to graft on any changes to our system. President Lleras thought that the universities should fill the role of philosophical review of the function of government, except that nobody listens to their views. The President thought that another experiment in Utopia might be worthwhile carrying out, under controlled conditions, of course.

President Lleras mentioned that Colombian Cabinet Ministers could go to the floor of Congress and engage in debates. The President said that he had come to the conclusion that the U.S. House of Representatives should be elected for the same term of office as the President, four years. He also said that the President should have the item veto. President Lleras said that he had that power which could be overruled only by two-thirds votes of the Congress.

To the President’s query about the size of the Colombian budget. President Lleras said that it was approximately two billion pesos ($300 million). Again responding to the President’s question, he said that defense items consumed about 20 percent of the above amount, but this included countrywide police.

With respect to the loyalty of the senior military officers, President Lleras expressed no concern, adding that he felt that military coup d’etats were usually the fault of political leaders seeking intervention by the military rather than the ambition of the latter. He recalled that General Rojas Pinilla, who became the bane of Colombia, had been openly welcomed by most Colombians when he seized power in 1953. President Lleras said that the United States, quite different from the Latin American countries, had had long experience in self-government prior to its revolution and that this had been a tremendous advantage.

The President inquired about Colombia’s program of social and economic reform. President Lleras said that he had instituted a good program and that it was of tremendous importance in view of the wide public appeal of the Castro-type program. The President declared that agrarian reform had to be carried out with proper land utilization and sound planning, rather than by mere seizure of lands already under cultivation. President Lleras agreed. He said that Colombia had state lands where effective re-settlement could be carried out. Their principal problem is that of dealing with the many tiny, inefficient parcels of land (minifundia) as well as how to provide the necessary credit for the small farmer. They have a good agrarian credit bank, already thirty years old, but they need additional resources. He estimated that 80 percent of the motive power in Colombian agriculture was provided by animals. The President referred to the need to train personnel to use modern tractors and farm machinery.

Responding to the President’s question about Colombia’s financial reserves, President Lleras said that they now totaled about $220 million but they could not use this money freely yet. All bankers say that Colombia is “sound” from an economic standpoint but her problems are still “grave”, said President Lleras. Ambassador McIntosh referred to the good financial record of Colombia and to the excellent borrowing record which Colombia has with all of the financial institutions; he said that most of the exporter credit loans with the Export-Import Bank were 5 to 10 years, while some of the project loans with the World Bank, totaling about $130 million, ran up to 20 years. President Leras discussed Colombia’s needs in the field of education, especially more elementary schools. It is hard to maintain a functioning democracy without improving the social and cultural level of the people.

With respect to Cuba, President Lleras said that the problems regarding that country should be handled in the OAS, and not by the United States alone. He told the President what he had told the Secretary earlier about his instructions to Colombian Embassies around the Hemisphere to inquire of the host governments as to their reaction to the Castro renunciation of the Rio Treaty. He believed that Cuba should be asked about this in the OAS Council.

The President expressed agreement. He added that the OAS should be given all possible opportunity to build up not only its respect in the Hemisphere but to add to its authority and area of responsibility. “If the OAS is to be a living reality, it must take on additional responsibilities.” It is not inhibited by the hostile action of certain countries, like the United Nations. The President stressed the juridical and moral equality of the nations of America. He thoroughly approved of the “political approach” to the Cuban problem suggested by President Lleras.

1. Source: Department of State, ARA/WST Files, Lot 64 D 1, “Colombia 1960.” Confidential; Limit Distribution. Approved at the White House on April 19.