Foreign Relations of the United States, 1958–1960, Volume III, National Security Policy; Arms Control and Disarmament, Microfiche Supplement

469. Memorandum of Conference with the President¹

Washington, May 19, 1959, 11 a.m.

OTHERS PRESENT

• Dr. Killian, Dr. Bacher, Dr. Baker
• Dr. Bethe, Dr. Bronk, Dr. Chance
• Dr. Fisk, Dr. Kistiakowsky, Dr. Land
• Dr. Piore, Dr. Purcell, Dr. Rabi
• Dr. Seaborg, Dr. Smith, Dr. Weiss
• Dr. Wiesner, Dr. Dryden, Dr. Hill
• Dr. Scoville, Dr. Waterman, Dr. York
• Mr. Beckler, Major Eisenhower
• General Goodpaster

The President welcomed the group. Dr. Killian asked if he had any points he wanted to bring to the attention of the group, which had not met with him for some months. The President said he did not. He hoped they would continue their study of means of simplifying and making more effective the control of governmental research activities, and eliminating duplication. He referred to a troublesome amendment by Senator Russell to the Military Construction Bill, under which Congress would authorize on an annual basis programs for specific aircraft and missiles. Dr. Killian mentioned that the Congress is doing this in relation to the space program, and the result is to delay these programs considerably. Dr. Dryden confirmed this.

Dr. Killian said the group had two matters they wanted to bring to the President’s attention. As to the first, they were impressed by the great and growing complexity of our military technology, by the reduction in the time scale, both of possible conflict and of weapons development, by the rapid obsolescence of weapons types, and by the overlapping of different systems. All this seems to mean an increase in the cost of weapons, and a lack of stability in military relations between nations. On the point of obsolescence, the President commented that once we have an effective standardized item, we should proceed by gradually replacing it, but not by scrapping such items as soon as an improved type of item is available. Dr. Killian agreed with this philosophy. He added that dispersal programs, quickened response and improved alarm and alert systems add to the same tendency. The group was much impressed with this point and wanted to propose to the President that they think the United States should tackle the arms control problem anew. From the standpoint of the group, what they want is a systematic and rigorous feeding in of technical factors involved in arms control. The Presided asked if Dr. Killian felt that any additional charter or directive from him was needed to carry this out, expressing agreement with the principle. He added that, just as military men succeed as they work themselves out of a job, the scientists should be working themselves out of the job of devoting their talents to military weapons systems.

At Dr. Killian’s request, Dr. Land carried forward the discussion of the subject. He said first that he was grateful for the President’s support of scientific activity since the group first met with him about a year and a half ago. The whole attitude of the country has been turned around in the few months, and the President’s personal part in this has been the decisive factor.

(At this point a note was brought in which the President read aloud to the group, indicating that Admiral Strauss’ nomination had been reported favorably out of committee by a margin of one vote; there was no generally shared reaction from the scientists.)

Dr. Land went on to say that the problem is, while using science for military ends, also to recognize in a practical way the obligation of science to bring about abundance, well-being, a better life, etc. He therefore asks whether something could be done to dramatize scientific efforts in behalf of arms control. He said that if scientists talk to our military people about arms control, they are immediately suspect as being soft or indifferent to security—even if they are the very scientists who have made great contributions to military technology. There is every reason why the United States should take initiative on arms control, and scientists should be permitted to contribute all ideas they can—as to how to control armaments and make a better life for everyone. His specific request is for the President to work with the scientists to advance and foster arms control. The President said that if the scientists can help to show concrete ways to make progress on arms control, he will be most grateful and glad to join in the process.

Dr. Wiesner next spoke, pointing out that this is a very large problem, some aspects of which caused him great concern while he was at Geneva. Our national effort in such fields as the disarmament field seems to be characterized by too slow decisions, too many conflicting objectives, and inadequate management and study of the problem. He is convinced that arms control needs study in detail. For example, he felt that U.S. policy makers, prior to the U.S. commitment last year to suspend testing, were woefully uninformed on the problem, at least in respect to any degree of detail. He said the inevitable consequence is overconservatism in negotiation. He said there is no continuing development of technical background and studies for disarmament. Accordingly, our group went to Geneva with quite inadequate technical and political preparation. He felt that until we have such studies we cannot go into this subject seriously.

The President recalled that beginning three or four years ago he had the idea of stopping atmospheric tests. He encountered enormous resistance and found very little support initially. The lesson is that the great task is to bring thinking along, since in a democracy public opinion weighs so heavily. He did not think that we need big bodies studying these questions. Rather the need is for a few basic, good ideas. He thought that a small sub-committee may usefully be set up to develop the technical basis for disarmament. Dr. Killian commented that this effort would tie in very closely with the terms of reference submitted to the President by Mr. Herter in relation to the whole question of disarmament.

Dr. Killian said the second item the group had in mind to discuss with the President had been the subject of a study of a panel under Dr. Bronk. The idea is one of greatly enlarged international exchange of scientific information. Dr. Bronk said that the scientists think they are especially well positioned to build international understanding. He thought that they could contribute to a better understanding of the U.S. by foreign countries as a country devoted to freedom and well-being of its people. As an example, he suggested exploring the possibility of encouraging young people to give several years of their lives to service abroad in technical and scientific fields, including the teaching of science and technical subjects. He thought there is need for an overhauling of the concept of exchange of scientific information between the United States and countries abroad. For example, he thought the “quid pro quo principle” applying to the exchange of people is too restrictive to guide the exchange of scientific information.

The President said he certainly agreed in principle but would ask how the group considered that thinking should be organized on this matter so as to get qualified people working on it. In other words, what is the next step. That is what he would like to hear.

Dr. Rabi, at Dr. Killian’s request, reported that he had visited in Russia for six days. He had been well received and relationships were excellent. He said he had visited a large nuclear accelerator at Dubna (?) of about one-half mile diameter. This is being run as an international laboratory with personnel from many of the satellite nations working together as a team. He thought that perhaps the United States is failing to use some of its facilities in a way that would promote better international relations. What he had in mind was the possibility of making the Brookhaven Laboratory or the Lawrence Laboratory a “Pan-American” facility. He said that the NATO Science Committee, after a slow start, is beginning to see the light. It is necessary for the U.S. to keep up the pressure and the initiative with a flow of new ideas and provision of a large fraction of the funds.

The President repeated that as to the principle, he was in accord. He felt he could do something to help if the project is shaped up in a concrete way. Dr. Rabi pointed out that other nations participating should pay for part of the operation. This would add to their self-respect. Dr. Piore said that a radio-astronomy laboratory just now coming into operation might be a very useful place to apply this. The South Americans, for example, have no facilities in this field. The President said he simply asked that the group work up a concrete plan.

He then spoke on what he termed the basic truth to which he always comes back. He said we have got to find an answer to cooperating closely with other countries, “or else.” He did not think we could carry forward the heavy burdens for armaments that we are now supporting. Inevitably we would have to go to controls throughout our society, or at the least to bureaucratic domination. He thought that all of the suggestions made indicated promising ways for progress, and challenged the scientists to show ways to go forward beyond what our military and political leaders are able to conceive. The crux, however, is to organize these efforts. He said he does not believe that the Soviets want war, but pointed out that Khrushchev is quite ready to engage in military bluffs to advance Soviet foreign policy. Dr. Rabi pointed out that he thinks neither country is seriously thinking about going to war, commenting on rows of apartments being built that he saw in Russia.

The President said he is ready to do anything he could to join in such an activity. Dr. Wiesner referred to the great lack of public understanding of the issues. The public, he said, thinks of test suspension as being dangerous to our well-being (which he considers to be an incorrect judgment). The President picked up this point, saying that his greatest obsession is just this problem. He thinks the most important thing for people today is to get the American people to understand the basic factors of international and domestic issues. Such an understanding is the indispensable firm base from which governmental action can be undertaken. This is a terribly difficult task, however—not to be accomplished simply by saying it needs to be done. He mentioned many of the efforts that he makes to form and lead public opinion.

As the group dispersed, the President asked how the proposal for the linear accelerator is progressing. Dr. Killian said the paper work is in good shape and AEC is at the point of putting the proposal to the Congress.

A.J. Goodpaster
Brigadier General, USA

1. Source: Technical basis of disarmament; international exchange of scientific information. Secret. 5 pp. Eisenhower Library, Whitman File, DDE Diaries.