350. Record of Telephone Conversation Between John Foster Dulles and Herter1
The Sec said on the whole it went well. The atmosphere is less tense than he thought it would be. Fawzi is a slick performer and made a smart conciliatory speech. The Sec said he talked with Gromyko yesterday and for the first time he did not recite boiler-plate stuff and it looked as though he would be interested in getting something. Their res is pretty moderate. If the order were reversed it would not be too bad. This may be the lull before the storm and it may get worse but it is off to a fairly mild start with a reasonable prospect of getting a res most [Typeset Page 1405] would agree on. Probably that is over-optimistic and is due to the Pres’ being here.
H said nothing too exciting is going on there. He is going up at 2 on EURATOM. It looks as though they have two reasonable bills if we could get them to report them out.
At 4 there will be another discussion on cessation of atomic tests. The Sec though H could push that along without waiting for him to come back. H said the Sec has to make the decision. Someone notified the man in Geneva re the difference and they have expressed themselves in a telegram which the Sec said he has not seen. H summarized it. It did not come from State—AEC or IAEA. He will try to find out shortly. The Sec is concerned about the French here and notices this formulation talks about parties to the agreement. Who are they? H said so far they are talking in bilateral terms. H replied he assumes it would not include [Facsimile Page 2] the UK unless they want to join. They agreed they would want to join. The Sec said as you envision it just the UK, US and USSR make an agreement to suspend and the French would be free. H said there has been no real discussion with the French. The Sec said Couve will probably be here Monday and it might be useful to talk then. H will arrange this p.m. to move on it. The Sec said the area would not be limited to the 3 and H said it would be all the world. The Sec said that would require agreements with them. The consent of the others would be second-stage agreements. Agreed. The Sec said you don’t know if the French will agree to set it up in the Sahara or the Chinese Communists—that would all be later on. The Sec mentioned our making a unilateral declaration and then will that be a treaty at first? H is not sure of it. The Sec thinks first there would be an Executive Agreement. The Sec mentioned again H’s pushing it—if he gets into trouble he could come there for an hour or so if H wanted him to,—at the WH tomorrow or Friday. The Pres said the Columbine would stand by to get him. The Sec said the preliminary thinking along the lines he has indicated should be thought through.
H said at NSC tomorrow Gray has questions for discussion that may bring on discussion re Taiwan. H said he did not see the Sec’s memo of conv with the Pres about that. The Sec referred to what he said and added he does not think what the Pres said re a statement before a press conf was his final considered opinion. H said they are drafting something to come here tonight for consideration and will send a copy to the WH. The Sec is reluctant to see it dealt with by a formal decision at NSC and H does not think it can be. The Sec said it is all right the way it stands.
- Source: Cessation of nuclear testing. No classification marking. 2 pp. Eisenhower Library, Dulles Papers, General Telephone Conversations.↩