Marshall Mission Files, Lot 54–D270
Notes on Conference of Three (Meeting No. 2)—General Marshall, Governor Chang Chun, Central Government Representative, and General Chou En-lai, Communist Party Representative—at General Marshall’s Residence, Chungking, January 8, 1946, 10 a.m.
M[arshall]: If agreeable with you gentlemen, we will proceed with business. First are there any corrections you wish to suggest for recorded minutes of the last meeting.
G[overnor Chang]: Governor Chang says that the minutes are just being translated and suggests we consider it later.[Page 60]
M: At some later date.
C[hou]: We have some which we have given to the secretary.
M: We will take up approval of these meetings at some later time. We have already noted certain changes that General Chou wished to make.
Yesterday there was one understanding to be recorded in the minutes. I will read it to see if it is a correct record. Formal statements to be included in minutes of the meeting. With reference to paragraph c in cessation of hostilities document, “It is understood and herewith made a matter of record in the minutes of the conference that lines of communications mentioned in paragraph c include post communications.” Is that acceptable?
M: So noted as acceptable. Are there any other preliminary statements that you wish to make, Governor Chang?
M: Are there any other preliminary statements that you wish to make, General Chou?
M: Then if agreeable, we will proceed with the discussion of paragraph b.
G: Governor Chang proposes an amendment to paragraph b. The proposed amendment will include the fourth topic, the fourth item, discussed yesterday.
B[yroade]: Paragraph d.
G: Paragraph b will first of all contain the principle of cessation of hostilities, that is to say, after cessation of hostilities, all movements will cease in the whole country, no matter in what place, but with certain exceptions. There will be four exceptions. The first exception will be movements of forces south of the Yangtze River for purposes of demobilization, reorganization and redeployment. The second exception covers the point already contained in the original draft. That is, movements of forces of the National Government into and within Manchuria for the purpose of reestablishing Chinese sovereignty. This can be accepted. The third exception. Movements of forces for the purpose of taking over certain places in the Province of Jehol and the Province of Chahar in accordance with our arrangements with Soviet Russia. The fourth exception is the same as the last sentence in the original paragraph. That is, movements of purely local nature necessary for supply, administration and security. These are the four exceptions to the general rule that all military movements should cease throughout the country immediately after the cessation of hostilities.[Page 61]
C: I noticed that Governor Chang has in his proposal made one more addition to yesterday’s proposal. Yesterday he proposed to add the item concerning Jehol and Chahar and today he makes another addition concerning troop movements south of the Yangtze River.
G: Yesterday I proposed the area in which military movements should be prohibited to be the areas covered by the eight railways as originally proposed by General Chou, but what I have now proposed compared with the original proposal of the Communist leaders, seems to be a concession; we have even granted more than what they have asked for.
C: Speaking concretely with regard to Jehol and Chahar, I know definitely that the Government cannot produce any kind of agreement or arrangement on the matter of taking over from Soviet Russia. On the other hand, about the places which Governor Chang has referred to, like Chihfeng and Tolun, we know definitely their sovereignty has been taken over by the 8th Route Army. Only in the past, there have been some troops of the Outer Mongolian Republic there and after we have taken over the sovereignty, I have not been informed about any change of its state and the assertion made by Governor Chang that the Government is going to take over those places in accordance with any certain agreement is without foundation.
M: Only in the past meaning what?
C: Meaning before the 8th Route Army came to these places, troops of Outer Mongolian Republic had been there, but then evacuated.
By raising this point it would only make the realization of cessation of hostilities impossible. Right now military operations of the National troops are still going on in the eastern part of Jehol moving towards Chihfeng and Tolun. This makes it impossible to cease the war and he most regrets for such actions. As to the second item, the second exception proposed by Governor Chang concerning troop movement south of the Yangtze River for the purpose of reorganization, redeployment etc., I think it is better to make it applicable throughout the country and I am thinking to incorporate this point in item four. That is to say that item four referring to local movements would not only cover supply administration and local security, but would also cover redisposition and training. For troop movements for such purposes would not only be required in the south of the Yangtze River and not only be required by troops of the National Government, but also be required by troops of the Communists.
M: Only south of the Yangtze. I don’t get the meaning.
C: Not only troops south of the Yangtze River will be required for the purpose of reorganization. Not only in the southern part [Page 62]of the Yangtze River and also in other places for the purpose of training, demobilization, local security, or supply. Not only in the south and [but?] also in the north, not only on the Government side, but also on the Communist side.
I think the cessation of hostilities can be settled rather quickly. As to the problem of reorganization of troops, I understand that the Government is going to draw up a national scheme and the same problem will also be taken up by the PCC. It will be carried into effect after the cessation of hostilities has been effected and this reorganization of troops would also include the Communist troops. Right now the problems involved in the cessation of hostilities are troop movements for the purpose of training, demobilization, local security, administration, supply and for local redisposition.
G: Reallotment of positions.
C: Local reallotment of positions. Therefore, I think that last sentence in paragraph b of the original draft may cover all these things. By adding a few words like training, demobilization, local redisposition.
As regards the second exception raised by Governor Chang, I insist that this order only states that troop movements in China proper should cease and we will put it down in the minutes that Manchuria should form an exception.
G: I will state my views in regard to the points raised by General Chou in the same order as he has submitted them. Regarding the question of Chihfeng and Tolun the proposal of the Government has its proper legal basis. On October 31st of last year, General Hsiung Shih-hui, Chief of the Generalissimo’s Headquarters in the Northeast, reached an understanding with Soviet authorities in regard to the taking over of the Northeastern Provinces, the taking over of all those places occupied by Soviet troops. The agreement was discussed and concluded with General Vasselevski [Bochlovsky], the Soviet Chief of Staff. Evacuation of Soviet troops and the taking over by Chinese troops should be effected by stages, according to the agreement. There should be five stages according to the agreement. The first stage should be accomplished on November 10th, including Yingkou. The second stage should have been accomplished on November 12th, with Takushan, Chinchow, Kupeikow, as the line of demarcation—that is the second line. The third stage of evacuation should have been accomplished on November 15th, and this line goes through Chaoyang up until the line terminates at Shanhuangchi—that is the third line. The fourth stage of evacuation should have been accomplished on November 20th. This line covers Shenyang (Mukden), Hsinlitun, Chihfeng and Tolun. The fifth line has no relation to the [Page 63]subject. However, this line should have been reached on November 25th. According to these arrangements, Soviet troops should withdraw stage by stage, leaving a few troops in the original places which they evacuated, for the purpose of maintaining local order until they were actually taken over by our troops. Because of the fact that the taking over of the places evacuated by Soviet troops by Chinese troops could not be effected without the help of American transportation, we transmitted this plan as agreed upon between the Chinese and the Soviet authorities, to the American Military Headquarters on November 2nd. On the same date, General Shan Cheng,52 at a meeting with the American military authorities, reported these arrangements. That is the combined staff conference. He made a report to the Chinese-American Combined Staff Conference. Unfortunately, the Government later met with obstacles in dispatching troops to the Northeast regions for the purpose of taking over these regions. Consequently, the Government had to approach the Soviet Government with a view to postponing the definite dates for the taking over of the lines as originally agreed upon and, finally, the date of February 1st was fixed for the final evacuation of all Soviet troops from Chinese territories, and the last line, the fourth line which covers Hsinlitun, Chihfeng and Tolun, which should have been reached on November 20th, has not yet been taken over by the Chinese troops because of the difficulties met with by the Chinese troops. Therefore, this line will be taken over by Chinese troops according to our agreement with the Soviet Government. As I have stated, the Soviet troops when withdrawing from certain occupied regions, will leave a few troops for the maintenance of the local peace and order. Therefore, in Tolun and Chihfeng there are a few mixed units of Mongolian troops and Soviet troops. (Showing map—he designated Chihfeng, Tolun and Hsinlitun.)
M: What is the date of that?
G: (Pointing) This line—November 20th.
M: As I understand it, a copy of this was delivered to the American Headquarters in November?
G: Yes, sir. Also a copy of the telegram. The telegram and the overlay went together.
B: What is the telegram?
G: That telegram was from General Tsung53 regarding the plans they made. If you want, we can send another copy of the telegram and the sketch.[Page 64]
B: I think it should be in the record.54
G: Recently the Soviet military authorities have repeatedly been asking us to effect the process of taking over, and our troops for the taking over of the places towards the west, on the left-hand side, are now trying to establish contacts with the Soviet Headquarters.
As to the point raised by General Chou that in the past we have not discussed the point with regard to Chihfeng and Tolun, the fact is that we have had no opportunity of discussing this question in the past. We have had no opportunity of discussing the details of taking over those places in the Northeast.
General Chou commented on my proposal relating to the exception of the regions South of the Yangtze. He suggested that this point could be combined with the fourth point, that is to say, all movements of forces of a local nature for training, demobilization and redeployment could be combined. However, I want to emphasize the point of reorganization about which General Chou seems to have expressed an opinion that this should cover not only the Government troops, but also Communist troops. General Chang has a different opinion on this point.
M: What was that?
G: General Chou said that the point of reorganization should not be included in the second exception. Our plan of reorganization was fixed at the time of the establishment of the General Headquarters of the Chinese Army at the end of the year before last—the end of 1944. The object of the reorganization scheme was to strengthen the Chinese Army for the purpose of taking up a counter-offensive against the then enemy. At the time of victory and the surrender of the Japanese, the preliminary stage of the scheme had already been accomplished. After the war, it is only natural that we should endeavor to continue the execution of the reorganization plan. In last November we had a conference for demobilization and reorganization. At this conference it was decided that the original plan of reorganization should be continued, at least in regions South of the Yangtze. At that time, unfortunately, due to conflicts occurring in the North, we could not push through this scheme North of the Yangtze River. It is our wish that while the plan would continue South of the Yangtze River, the plan could be also carried out in other regions, providing we could continue the discussion and conferences. There have been three main groups which we have been discussing at present, the question of the plan of reorganization in the North is under discussion, and this can be completed in the future, but in the regions South of the Yangtze, the Government has wished to carry out the scheme of the reorganization. [Page 65]After the cessation of hostilities there will be no need of making use of large numbers of troops for engagements. Therefore, there would be all the greater need of reorganization. Hence, I propose that the reorganization of the Government troops South of the Yangtze should be an exception.
General Chou says in regard to the question of the Northeast that the restriction or the prohibition of military movements should be limited to cover China proper, with no mention of the Northeast in the General Order, but in the minutes it may be recorded that the Government troops may move into Manchuria. Now, this suggestion I will consider. While I would consider the formal agreement as suggested by General Chou as regards the Northeast, I would at the same time urge General Chou and his colleagues to reconsider the questions in regard to Chihfeng and Tolun and the plan of reorganization South of the Yangtze.
M: What was that?
G: The point raised by General Chou in regard to the Northeast—in regard to Manchuria. I promise that I will consider the suggestion made by General Chou in regard to the Northeast; that is, in the General Order no military operations should take place in China proper, but in the minutes it will be recorded that Chinese troops can proceed to the Northeast. This suggestion I will consider. While I promise to consider this point, I urge General Chou and his colleagues to reconsider my views in regard to Chihfeng and Tolun and the question of reorganization of forces South of the Yangtze.
M: Now, Gentlemen, it is a little after 11:00 o’clock and I have given you no tea, so I presume that I have offended the Chinese custom. Also to follow an American custom, when you reach a certain stage of a baseball game, which is the 7th inning, all business ceases and everybody stretches their legs. I therefore suggest, if agreeable to you gentlemen, that we have a fifteen minute recess. I will turn over my room to Governor Chang and his associates, and they can have their discussion, tea, and relax, and I will turn over the dining-room to General Chou. Is that acceptable?
M: Then we will resume the discussions. There will be a fifteen-minute recess.
M: If agreeable to you gentlemen, the meeting will come to order. I have a message from the photographers. They wished to get yesterday photographs here at the table and we forgot them. If there is no objection, we will let them come in now for a moment to take the [Page 66]pictures because they are trying to catch a plane to Shanghai with the films. This is entirely a question of the pleasure of the Governor and General Chou. Is that agreeable.
M: From now on they will tell us what to do.
Session with Photographers
M: We will resume the order of business. Governor Chang, have you any further statement to make?
M: General Chou?
C: First of all, I want to comment on certain points. Regarding the first exception raised by Governor Chang, I suggest separating it into two parts. Regarding demobilization and local replacement of troops, I suggest to incorporate them into the last sentence of paragraph b of the original draft. Last sentence, referring to local security, administration, supply, should be changed into: Local movement necessary for supply, administration, local security, demobilization and local replacement, which means a redisposition without changing strength at each place.
G: For example, we have now three units in Taiwan, (Formosa). We want to withdraw a number of units and send there an equal number of units to take their place.
C: To take their place.
M: Redeploying them is on the line. Redisposition or regrouping. Regrouping is the English meaning.
C: We are not sure of these terms. Redisposition.
M: Then it reads, demobilization, reorganization and redisposition.
C: No. Demobilization and redisposition.
C: With regard to troop movements for the purpose of carrying out the reorganization of divisions, reorganization of troops in regions south of the Yangtze River, I agree, after consideration, that it can be an exception, put into this paragraph.
G: Separate sentence in the paragraph.
M: Just one minute. We will have to keep in mind that this is an order to the troops and normally would not include matters that do not apply to subordinate commanders. It seems to me that General Chou’s last statement including the separate sentence here involves a high governmental understanding and not a directive of specific troops. Therefore, it would seem to me it should be in the minutes rather than the order.[Page 67]
C: I agree.
G: I agree.
M: We have a sentence in the minutes. Reading how?
G: In the minutes you can refer to this paragraph, that is the provision in the second paragraph of the general order.
M: There will be a number of references to this paragraph, so this is another of them.
G: This paragraph will not prejudice military movements south of the Yangtze River for the execution of the reorganization plan which should be continued.
M: What is General Chou’s idea of the sentence.
G: Strike out the words which should be continued and add for the continued execution.
M: Paragraph b does not prejudice military movements south of the Yangtze River for the continued execution of the plan of military reorganization of the National Government. That is accepted?
M: Where does that sentence go.
C: That is in the minutes.
G: In regard to the term redisposition, Governor Chang doesn’t think we could add the word local to the term because that would prohibit the Central Government from dispatching troops to Japan as we are planning to do. At the same time, we may shift troops from Szechwan to other regions, say Hupeh, which will have nothing to do with the general situation; and if we employ “for the maintenance of security in certain regions”, if we employ the term “local redisposition”, that would be too restrictive.
M: The sentence now reads, “There also may be purely local movements.” Your proposal is to strike out “purely local”. Is that correct?
I have it written now following Governor Chang’s statement, “There also may be the movements necessary for supply, administration and local security and demobilization and redisposition.”
G: We think that demobilization and redisposition, being of greater importance than supply and administration, should come first.
M: The sentence would then read, “There also may be the movements for demobilization, redisposition, supply, administration and local security.”
G: Would the sentence read better if we had one or two more words, “There may also be such movements as are necessary for demobilization, redisposition, supply, administration and local security.”
M: There also may be such movements as are necessary for demobilization [Page 68]and redisposition, supply, administration and local security.
M: General Chou?
C: General Chou expressed a doubt as to “such movements as are necessary”. He thinks that such phrasing may include other movements—any movements which are not necessary for the purpose.
M: If there is objection to that would Governor Chang be agreeable to changing it back to read, “There also may be the movements necessary for demobilization, redisposition, supply, administration and local security.”
G: Do you think “the” is necessary. There also may be movements.
C: That is much better.
M: Are hostilities going to depend on the word “the” here? Have you reached an agreement regarding this sentence.
C: General Chou would like to have that in.
G: Agreeable to us.
M: Then the sentence, I understand, is accepted to read as follows: “There also may be the movements necessary for demobilization, redisposition, supply, administration and local security.” Is that acceptable.
M: Now, as I understand it, that would be the concluding sentence of paragraph b.
M: Then we have to consider again the remainder of the first part of the paragraph which, I take it, will have to be subject to certain exceptions taken in the minutes, one of which, I understand has already been agreed upon, that relating to movements south of the Yangtze. The paragraph now reads: “All movements of forces within China proper and Manchuria will cease with the exception of movements of forces of the National Government of the Republic of China into and in Manchuria for the purpose of reestablishing Chinese sovereignty.” Has General Chou any immediate proposal to that?
I had better explain that I was talking about the construction of the paragraph and not the details of the exceptions. (Interpreter: They are discussing whether or not to use the word “Proper” and “Manchuria”.) I have heard a suggestion which omits reference to China proper. If it is agreeable to you gentlemen, I will read it.
G: Please read it.
M: “All movements of forces, regular, militia, irregular and guerrilla, of the National Armies and the Communist Armies of the [Page 69]Republic of China which are related directly or indirectly to hostilities between these two Armies will cease.” I will read that a second time, and let’s have a second translation. (To General Chou’s interpreter). Will you translate? “All movements of forces, regular, militia, irregular and guerrilla, of the National Armies and the Communist Armies of the Republic of China which are related directly or indirectly to hostilities between these two Armies will cease.” Now that would require certain exceptions in the minutes. It is understood that if such a paragraph were acceptable, it would complete the order and our problem would be a discussion of the exceptions.
G: This sentence would be followed by the second sentence?
M: Yes, we completed the end of the paragraph.
G: Governor Chang would like to ask a question about where we put the understanding in the minutes, will the minutes be published?
M: I do not know. What is your idea about that?
G: It seems to us that it is necessary to publish the fact that we have reserved certain matters. For instance, if we don’t announce the fact that we may move troops into Manchuria, those who read the order will naturally have doubt as to what our position may be with regard to the Northeast. So we think it is quite necessary to publish the facts as recorded in the minutes.
M: That is a matter for the two parties to decide. Something for you two gentlemen to agree upon. I would assume that the exceptions specifically recorded in the minutes might well be released for public understanding at the time that the order is published. The one is an order to the troops; the other is for the purpose of a general understanding of the people of China. But that is a matter for you gentlemen to decide.
G: Our original proposal was to incorporate all the exceptions into paragraph b in order that the public would know our exact position. Now General Chou has proposed that certain exceptions should be put in the minutes, I can accept his proposal, providing in paragraph b in the main order, we should explain that as a principle, “except in certain specific areas, all movements of forces will cease.” Then, at the same time we publish the facts as recorded in the minutes bearing on these specific areas.
M: General Chou?
C: I am afraid that by adding these few words at the beginning of this draft, there may be a distortion of the original meaning of the sentence, for if you add, “Except in certain specific areas,” then it would imply that hostilities would only cease for certain territories, while in those territories covered by the exceptions the hostilities may continue.[Page 70]
M: What is General Chou’s opinion regarding the publication of exceptions?
C: He thinks that they can be published when necessary.
C: For example, if inquiry is made to the National Government, or if the National Government is going to issue orders to specific troops in accordance with the minutes, then it can quote the minutes, in its order.
M: In the order?
C: In specific orders.
M: I don’t understand you.
C: General Chou repeats, it can be published, for example, under two conditions: one is if inquiry is made to the National Government on the details, then the Government may give a reply by publishing the minutes. Another example is if the Government is going to issue special orders in accordance with these minutes, then they can also publish the particular minutes relating to it as a reference.
M: Have you any comment, Governor Chang?
G: Since General Chou has agreed that what is recorded in the minutes may be published, if necessary, and may also be sent in orders to the commanders, I will not insist on putting all the exceptions into the paragraph under discussion, but I should think that we must put in the main paragraph some phrase or some words such as, “With the exception of certain cases,” or “Except in certain specific cases, all movements of forces in China will cease.” (Pointing to paper) We are not using this as the basis.
M: You are using the original?
G: Yes, we are using the original. “Except in certain specific cases, all movements of forces in China will cease.” It seems that General Chou and Governor Chang have agreed on the Chinese text. The English translation would be, “Except in certain specific cases, all military movements in China will cease.” “Except in certain specific cases, all movements of forces will cease.”
M: Now, as I understand it, paragraph b would read in its first sentence, “Except in certain specific cases all military movements—
G: No, just all movements.
M: Oh, without the “military”? All right then, “Except in certain specific cases, all movements of forces in China will cease.” That sentence would be followed by this one already agreed upon. “There also—” I think that “also” could go out.
G: I think it should be in there.
M: “There also may be the movements necessary for demobilization, redisposition, supply, administration and local security.” Is that your idea of the completed paragraph?[Page 71]
M: No, it is not?
C: No, I mean, yes, there are no additions.
M: Is that right?
M: But not the exceptions.
M: Then with the exception of paragraph d that completes an agreement on the order.
M: That is agreed. I ask the question, do you consider it necessary now to continue paragraph d?
M: It is agreed that paragraph d will be struck out and, therefore, paragraph e becomes paragraph d.
M: Then it is my understanding that we have agreed upon the wording of the order and we are now ready to return to the question of exceptions.
G: Would you kindly read the text of the order once more.
M: “Memorandum To His Excellency, The Generalissimo” and a similar memorandum to Mao Tze-tung. “Subject, Cessation of Hostilities.
“In conformance with the agreements entered into by the National Government of China and the Chinese Communist Party, it is desirable that cease firing orders be issued at once and simultaneously by yourself and Chairman Mao Tze-tung. If this suggestion meets with your approval it is recommended that identical orders along the lines of the draft which follows be issued by you and by Chairman Mao Tze-tung at an agreed time on an agreed date.
“The text of the proposed draft order follows:
‘All units, regular, militia, irregular and guerrilla of the National Armies of the Republic of China’ (and of course in the corresponding order it will read “Communist Armies”) ‘are ordered to carry out the following directive as of _________________(hour) hours, on _________(day) __________________(month) of the __________(year) of the Republic:
- ‘a. All hostilities will cease immediately.
- ‘b. Except in certain specific cases, all movements of forces in China will cease. There also may be the movements necessary for demobilization, redisposition, supply, administration and local security.
- ‘c. Destruction of and interference with all lines of communications will cease and you will clear at once obstructions placed against or interfering with such lines of communications.
- ‘d. An Executive Headquarters will be established immediately in Peip’ing for the purpose of carrying out agreements for cessation of hostilities. This Headquarters will consist of three Commissioners; one representing the [Page 72]Chinese National Government, one representing the Chinese Communist Party, and one to represent the United States of America. The necessary instructions and orders unanimously agreed upon by the three Commissioners will be issued in the name of the President of the Republic of China through the Executive Headquarters.
Signed—(this order) Chiang Kai-shek’ [”]
The other order will be signed Mao Tze-tung.
G: The first paragraph is, of course, not included in the order and therefore would not be published?
M: No, that is our memorandum. We have to sign two copies of these letters; one to the Generalissimo, and one to Mao Tze-tung.
M: This is our proposal for their agreement.
G: And we take it, you will not publish the memorandum?
M: No, that is their letter. Is that accepted in the form in which I read it?
C: Nodded yes.
M: That is accepted. Now, it is a little after 12:30. Do you wish to proceed with the discussion of the exceptions or do you wish to delay that until this afternoon possible at some hour agreeable to you. I interrupted General Chou when he was in the midst of his presentation. It is possible that he would wish to finish his comments. What is your pleasure, gentlemen?
G: Now the only point of dispute is Tolun and Chihfeng. On all other exceptions there is agreement.
M: In other words, there is an agreement relating to the exception relating to Manchuria and there is an agreement relating to the exception relating to South of the Yangtze, and there remains to find an agreement regarding Tolun and Chihfeng. I would like to see those two cities. Did I interrupt you, General Chou?
C: No, I was only going to discuss this matter, but now I think it is better for us to decide whether to carry on our discussions or postpone it.
G: I presented all my views in regard to the question of Chihfeng and Tolun and have no further remarks to make. I hope that this question can be as amicably settled as other difficult points, and I don’t know what General Chou now thinks about it.
C: He asks your opinion on whether you would like to hear his views on this particular subject or if you’d rather postpone the matter, because if he is going to express his views then the meeting might be drawn into the length.
M: We will listen to General Chou’s views now.
C: Now I am going to express my views on this matter. As I understand from what Governor Chang has just stated on this subject, he [Page 73]again confused the problem of Manchuria with this Tolun–Chihfeng affair, because he related the discussion with General Malinovsky on the plan of taking over of all those places as stated so he has identified Manchuria with Chahar. From what Governor Chang has stated, this problem evidently involves Soviet Russia in how it was arranged and how the places are to be taken over. This is a problem concerning both China and Soviet Russia and, therefore, I am thinking it might be necessary to have military representatives from Soviet Russia to explain to us about the actual situation, but in that case, the problem might become very complicated. From what I understand from Governor Chang’s last statement the problem concerning Chihfeng, Tolun and Chouyang [Chaoyang] is a problem of taking over those places. As a matter of fact, the sovereignty of those places has already been taken over by the Eighth Route Army. Now our present problem is cessation of hostilities. As troops of the National Government are advancing toward those places, so hostilities are inevitable. Our immediate concern is how to cease hostilities at once. In the future, all troops in China shall be reorganized, including Communist troops. Thereafter, we will have to discuss the redisposition and redeployment of all troops for at that stage all Chinese armies shall be National armies, so I don’t see why the Government is hastening to take over those places at the present time by means of force.
G: I would like to make these observations. The first point is this. An agreement was completed between the representative of the National Government and the representative of the Soviet forces and there has been no dispute between the National Government and the Soviet Government. As regards the relations between the Central Government and the Communist Party, they are matters between the two parties exclusively and they do not relate to any matters in which the Russian side has manifested any interest. General Chou says that those places in question have already been taken over by the Communist troops which are now in control of these places and that if Central Government troops should be dispatched to those places there may be future conflict which would be contrary to the subject of the arrangement which we are now discussing, but I would like to remark that it is for the very purpose of avoiding conflicts that we are now introducing this question, that we are now insisting on these places as forming an exception to the rule of restriction. This is for the very purpose of avoiding any possible conflict in the future. What we ask for is simply the implementation of our engagements with the Soviet Government.
M: It seems to me, gentlemen, that we are not at an immediate approach of agreement and, therefore, as the hour is late, that unless [Page 74]Governor Chang has not completed his statement, we should adjourn to another hour. Has he finished?
G: He has another point.
M: I withdraw my comment.
G: Governor Chang refers to the point made by General Chou that the question of Chihfeng and Tolun might be settled later on as a part of the execution of the reorganization plan which would include, not only the National troops, but the Communist troops as well. The Governor remarks that this seems quite well, but he points out that there are no reasons why according to the agreement with Russia we should not take over Chihfeng and Tolun. Probably General Chou’s remark might well apply to those places which are to the south of Chihfeng and Tolun and which according to the arrangements with Soviet Russia we should have taken over. But the question of these places they may probably be discussed later. As to the places of Chihfeng and Tolun, they form an immediate problem and we will proceed to take over these places in pursuance of our authority with the Soviet Government. This is the opinion in reply to General Chou.
M: Does that mean as raising the question of the two points and excluding the other points or areas for the time being.
G: Governor Chang lays special emphasis on Chihfeng and Tolun, but as to the other places south of that line, they may be discussed later on. Those seem to form an immediate problem.
M: In other words, there would be no movement into those regions until there had been further discussion.
G: After cessation of hostilities we will do according to what was agreed upon, but as to these places we will proceed to take them over as we have suggested.
M: If agreeable to you gentlemen, I suggest that we adjourn now and meet at some later hour, either today or some other hour tomorrow. Is that agreeable.
M: Then when would you suggest—today at some hour, or tomorrow morning.
G: It will depend on the hour suggested by General Chou. It is up to him.
C: What is your suggestion.
G: As far as the Government is concerned we will leave it up to General Chou.
C: He has no particular view on the hour of the meeting.
M: Would 4:30 be convenient to General Chou.
C: Yes.[Page 75]
M: Is that agreeable to Governor Chang.
M. Then we will adjourn to 4:30, but I have in mind that if possible we should as soon as possible take up the administrative order of the executive headquarters.
C: You mean that the question of the executive headquarters should be brought up first?
M: Not necessarily first to discuss. We ought to be ready to discuss it this afternoon, because as long as we do not go into those details they can do no work with the organization and it is important to allow them to organize as much as possible while we try to reach agreements on higher policy. Is it agreeable to adjourn until 4:30?
M: So adjourned.