RSC Lot 60–D 224, Box 96: U.S. Or. Min. 30 (Exec.)

Minutes of the Thirtieth Meeting (Executive Session) of the United Stated Delegation, Held at San Francisco, Friday, May 4, 1945, 7:10 p.m.

[Informal Notes]

The Secretary explained that this emergency meeting had been called in order that a quick consultation could be had among the members of the Delegation on the proposal advanced by Mr. Pasvolsky in the meeting of the four Foreign Ministers3 with respect to the amendment to Chapter VIII, Section C, paragraph 2, under which it was proposed to add the following words at the end of the second sentence: “with the exception of measures against enemy states in this war provided for in regional arrangements directed against renewal of aggressive policy on the part of such states until such time as the world organization may, by a decision of the Security Council, be charged with the responsibility for preventing further aggression by a state now at war with the United Nations.”

In explaining his proposal, Mr. Pasvolsky said that it tried to confine the action which would be taken under the exception to action against the enemy states. He said that at first he had attempted to argue the point with Mr. Molotov that there would be no need for an amendment to Section C, paragraph 2, since the measures referred to under the exception would only be those measures which could be taken under Chapter XII, paragraph 2. In any case, he said, if an amendment were made, it should be consistent both with Chapter VIII and with Chapter XII. He said that the first part of the proposed amendment would take care of the action against enemy states alone, while the second part of the proposal would take care of the question as to when the International Organization should take over action under the treaties.

[Page 608]

Mr. Pasvolsky said that during the Dumbarton Oaks Conversations, it had always been envisioned that at some time the International Organization, through the Security Council, would assume responsibility for control of the enemy states, but that this would be subject to agreement between the Security Council and the governments having responsibility toward the enemy states. He said that if it were wished to make this point clear the proposed amendment could be modified to indicate that the taking over of such responsibility by the Security Council would be subject to the agreement between the Security Council and the Governments referred to in Chapter XII, paragraph 2. Mr. Pasvolsky said that he felt that this might also be necessary since Mr. Molotov said that, otherwise, some doubt might always exist as to the responsibilities of the Security Council and the Governments concerned.

The Secretary asked Mr. Pasvolsky what he would recommend and Mr. Pasvolsky suggested the amendment which is set forth above.

Mr. McCloy said that, speaking for the War and Navy Departments, he could accept the amendment with some provision to cover the registration of treaties. He was assured that such a general provision would be included in the final Charter.

Mr. Stassen said that in his opinion, the amendment was “wide open” in relation to Chapter XII, paragraph 2; that in his view, if the Soviet Union and France agreed to take action under the proposed amendment, the United States would not have the veto power; he said this confusion arose since there was no clear indication as to who were “the Governments responsible” under Chapter XII. Messrs. Dunn and Pasvolsky said that they did not believe that Mr. Stassen’s interpretation was correct, and Senator Vandenberg also indicated that he disagreed with Mr. Stassen.

Mr. Stassen said that in his view, the United States must be a party to any peace settlement and that the amendment proposed by Mr. Pasvolsky would make that impossible. Mr. Pasvolsky said that that right of the United States was in no way abridged by the proposed amendment.

Mr. Dulles said that he did not agree with Mr. Stassen’s position since under the terms of Chapter XII, the International Organization would not be responsible for the control of Germany; that the major allies in this war would be responsible for such control and that was not involved in the amendment proposed by Mr. Pasvolsky.

Mr. Stassen said that was his point; that the proposal did not adequately take care of the provisions of Chapter XII. To this end, Commander Stassen suggested that the amendment should be redrafted to contain appropriate references to the rights of the Governments [Page 609] concerned in Chapter XII, also to take measures under the amendment and to be a party to any agreements that might be made for the transfer of the responsibilities under Chapter XII to the Security Council.

At this point, The Secretary said that he would like to poll the Delegation regarding their views on the amendment.

Senator Vandenberg said that he liked Mr. Pasvolsky’s proposal as it stood; that the Delegation would not be eternally committed to it, and that the Delegation could modify it later in the Conference if necessary.

Senator Connally and Representative Bloom said they would accept Mr. Pasvolsky’s proposal.

Dean Gildersleeve said that while she would accept the proposal, she still hoped that some attempt could be made to incorporate Mr. Stassen’s idea into the proposal.

At this point in the discussions, Mr. Stassen said that in his view, France under the proposed amendment could move without the consent of the Security Council at some future date, and this was what he was attempting to prevent. Mr. Bowman suggested that in view of Mr. Stassen’s strong opinions on this subject, some further attempt might be made to modify Mr. Pasvolsky’s proposal. Mr. Stassen replied that in his view it would be better to omit altogether any amendments to this Section.

In response to a specific question from Senator Connally, Mr. McCloy said that, representing the Army and Navy, he wished to express his agreement with Mr. Pasvolsky’s proposal.

Mr. Pasvolsky said that what had to be kept in mind was that the French and the Soviet Governments were trying to build a treaty system based on their continued fear of Germany; that such treaty system had to work—in the last analysis—without the assistance of the United States, since European Governments still were not sure that the continuing participation of the United States in the future “Control of Germany could be assured. For this reason, he said that it was impossible to keep Europe from building a defensive system against a renewed threat of German aggression and that he felt that if this proposed amendment, which was entirely consistent with the provisions of Chapter XII, could be accepted by the Delegation, it would be nothing more than a restatement of the position that had always been understood since Dumbarton Oaks.

Senator Vandenberg indicated that he agreed with Mr. Pasvolsky.

The Secretary adjourned the meeting at 7:40 p.m. in order that certain members of the Delegation could rejoin the meeting of the four Foreign Ministers.

  1. In a meeting of a subcommittee.