Memorandum of Conversation, by Mr. Leo Pasvolsky, Special Assistant to the Secretary of State

Participants: Secretary of State
Mr. Dulles5
Later joined by: Mr. Joseph C. Grew
Mr. James Clement Dunn
Mr. Green Hackworth
Mr. Leo Pasvolsky
Admiral Willson

Mr. Dulles called on the Secretary this morning and had a long conversation with him. They were joined later by Messrs. Grew, Dunn, Hackworth and Pasvolsky. Mr. Dulles went back to New York with the Secretary’s party, and during the trip there was a long conversation between him, the Secretary, Admiral Willson, Mr. Dunn, Mr. Hackworth and Mr. Pasvolsky.

The whole subject of Dumbarton Oaks was thoroughly gone over and Mr. Dulles again expressed his general agreement with the proposals. A large part of the conversation was devoted to the question of voting procedure in the Security Council and the problem of trusteeship.

On the subject of voting procedure, Mr. Dulles was given a comprehensive review of the possibilities that confront us from the point of view of the two extreme positions, as well as some middle ground along the lines of the formula that was discussed at Dumbarton Oaks. His comment was that he had himself thought of some such possibility and had come to the conclusion that the best way to handle the matter would be to provide that permanent members of the Council, when parties to a dispute, should not vote in procedures envisaged in Section A of Chapter VIII, but would retain their vote in procedures involved in Section B of that chapter. In fact, he said that if he himself had been drafting the document, he would have incorporated in it provisions of this type. He also said that that very morning he expressed thoughts along those lines to Senator Vandenberg, who appeared to be horrified by the proposal.

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The problem of trusteeship and some of the related problems of dependent areas were thoroughly gone over. Mr. Dulles expressed great satisfaction at the amount of thinking that has been done and his gratification that we are determined to push for the inclusion in the eventual charter of some provisions regarding international trusteeship. He said that such provisions would be absolutely necessary from the point of view of the acceptability of the proposed organization in this country.

In the course of the conversation, Mr. Dulles stated that while he had discussed his trip to Washington with Governor Dewey, he was really calling upon the Secretary in his personal capacity and in part in connection with his work with the Federal Council of Churches. He said that the question is still unsettled as to whether or not he would go on as Governor Dewey’s adviser on foreign affairs, but that he would, of course, inform the Governor of the results of his conversations in Washington.

  1. John Foster Dulles, adviser on foreign affairs to Governor Thomas E. Dewey, Republican candidate for the Presidency. For Secretary Hull’s account of a series of conversations with Mr. Dulles beginning August 23, 1944, see his Memoirs, vol. ii, pp. 1689 ff.