711.51/238
Memorandum of Conversation, by the Secretary of State
The French Ambassador called at his request. He proceeded to speak orally in compliance with certain communications from his Government at Vichy. He began by saying that he knows how this Government and this country view Mr. Laval, that is, how we appraise his present attitude and chief purposes. The Ambassador said that he thought this appraisal is different from what it should be; for example, if we judge Laval by his speech, we would adopt a cautious attitude toward him and his purposes. He then added that Laval, about the time he last came into the Government, had made a statement to Admiral Leahy which he, the Ambassador, feels that he could back up; that the substance of this statement was that Laval does not desire any trouble or any disturbance of the amicable relations between our two countries. The Ambassador then said that Laval’s political backing would not let him offend the United States and that Laval knows enough not to do so, and that it is not his inclination to do so. He added that Laval has a difficult and trying job, but that he would not hurt the United States; that he is not a tricky man as some think, but he does on occasion use words direct and even brutal. The Ambassador proceeded to say that he believes Laval will with Pétain and Darlan give the fullest consideration to every phase of the situation relating to Martinique and the French colonies in the Caribbean area; that Laval says that he cannot decide this matter until Pétain’s return and so cannot answer the first question put forth by the United States; that his Government, therefore, asks delay until Wednesday,86 particularly because of the question relating to immobilization of the warships at Martinique, and also in regard to the merchant fleet, France having obtained several advantages from the arrangements with us which were not called for in the German Armistice; that the negotiations must depend upon Pétain, that the Ambassador is his personal representative in this country and must depend upon him (Pétain).
[Page 628]The Ambassador closed his statement to me with the rather emphatic remark that Laval’s telegram on the whole is a very liberal one and that he does not close the door. I inquired whether this communication had also been sent to Admiral Robert, and the Ambassador replied that he was satisfied it had been so sent, but did not know for certain. In making his final request for time until Wednesday, the Ambassador sought to create the impression that the French officials would proceed in moderation and would be slow to initiate an act of force or military assault.
I proceeded to reply by saying to the Ambassador that regardless of what he and certain others around Laval may think of him and his attitude toward this country in the present situation, every person in this country is convinced that he is associated with Hitler and that this Government cannot consider for a moment any negotiations with Laval in regard to Martinique and other French colonial possessions in the Caribbean area; that Laval is avowedly pro-Hitler in every sense possible; that Laval is very desirous of seeing Hitler win the war; that all the people of this country are unanimously of the view that Hitler and Hitlerism personify everything that is inhuman and everything that is calculated, if Hitler succeeds, to inflict the greatest blow to the human race since the dawn of history. I said that I need not enumerate all of Hitler’s savage methods and the indescribable suffering of men, women and children everywhere in order to gratify his brutal lust for power and dominion; that the Japanese masses are on the level of barbarians led by the worst elements of savage barbarism in a desperate effort to cause injuries to the human race comparable to those that Hitler is seeking to inflict. I then said with some emphasis that with Laval bound by ties of friendship and loyalty to Hitler in this unspeakable movement of utter destruction of everything that is worthwhile to humanity, and having particularly in mind the betrayal of Indochina to Japan under orders by Hitler, it would be incomprehensible that this Government would even remotely consider sitting down and negotiating in the instant situation with Laval. The Ambassador did not seek seriously to take issue with my remarks about Laval and what he stands for. I stated that an additional number of German submarines are appearing in the Caribbean area and that this country has reached the point where it will proceed without delay to clean up and clean out any and every condition that might probably or even possibly lend aid to such submarine activities. I said that this relates to the French island possessions in the Caribbean area.
I next pointed out the great benefit which would accrue to the people of the French possessions under an arrangement such as this Government is proposing to Admiral Robert as High Commissioner, and I added that, unless somewhere there is a purpose to foment a [Page 629] clash and a conflict, I could see no reason from the viewpoint of any government or any individual to insist on a course that would prevent a settlement desired by all fair-minded disinterested persons. I said that this would be the test of whether an effort is made from abroad to foment bloodshed. Having again emphasized that this Government can only negotiate with Admiral Robert, as stated, I said that I assumed that he will communicate during today probably with Admiral Hoover, who is on the ground, and make known any desires on Robert’s part for an extension of time for the submission of a reply until Wednesday. I added thus far I have heard nothing today from Admiral Hoover as to a postponement until Wednesday.
- May 13.↩