500.A15A4/1240
Memorandum of Trans-Atlantic Telephone Conversation24
Secretary: Hello, Mr. Gibson.
Davis : Mr. Secretary, this is Norman Davis.
Secretary: Yes, now I recognize your voice.
Davis : We thought we ought to tell you about a conversation I had with the person mentioned in our 303.25 This gentleman told me in the strictest confidence that the British Cabinet actually adopted about a month ago this far-reaching plan on disarmament, but for various reasons they had not wished to launch it. I gather from what he said that the delay was due to a desire to consult with the Dominions and various factions and also some preoccupation as to its effect upon us. They were therefore embarrassed because the President got ready to act before they did and also annoyed at their [Page 264] own failure in not taking the initiative in presenting what they believed to be a better plan. They were discussing quite strenuously the advisability of announcing that plan, particularly on account of the pressure of public opinion and treatment of that position by Parliament and they hesitated for fear of giving the impression of marked differences of opinion between our two countries and they also feared that such a procedure might not constitute a subsequent agreement. I told him that, under the circumstances, it seemed to me that it would be better for us to sit down together now to try to reach a common denominator; not to air any differences in public since we were both desirous of accomplishing the same end. He concurred in that. He said he felt that MacDonald and perhaps the entire Cabinet would concur in this issue. While he did not tell me what the plan is, it did not involve any reduction in cruisers but did provide for the abolition of military aviation and of submarines and for a greater reduction in total tonnage than that proposed by the President.
He told me also that the British Admiralty was considerably concerned over the President’s proposal, particularly with regard to cruisers and submarines. They could not understand why we, knowing their need for cruisers, would propose a reduction and also, they could not understand why we did not propose the abolition of submarines but, on the contrary, fixed for submarines such a large tonnage as that of 10 or 12 hundred tons. I told him we had repeatedly stated that we were in favor of the abolition of submarines but I assumed the President’s proposal was not simply submitted with a view of getting just what we wanted but of getting an agreement and that while I had no definite plans on the subject, my guess was that our Navy felt that if we could not abolish submarines they would still want to have submarines which would meet their particular needs.
We then discussed a future program for the conference and I told this gentleman in confidence what we were considering as a resolution as indicated in our 296.26 He thought it would be possible to get such a program through.
Secretary: A resolution as to effectives?
Davis : A resolution upon accepting in principle the President’s proposal and outlining certain points of agreement. I think we could probably get that through and have Simon introduce it. Since our report, Simon came to see Gibson.
Secretary: When was this?
Davis : Today. This afternoon right after Gibson put in this [Page 265] call. Now, he first told us that the P.M.27 would appreciate it if we would come to Lausanne tomorrow because he wants to talk over the procedure with regard to the action of the British Government with regard to the President’s proposal. Baldwin tells him that the pressure on him is so great that he has got to say something soon because at the Commons someone introduced a resolution which will be embarrassing if he doesn’t do something. He said Sir John had been insisting on holding off and not saying anything more because he was very much opposed to any proposal of a rival plan and he was satisfied now that they would not do that, but that they would have to speak more concretely than heretofore what their views were. We still discussed what we should do in the Bureau this afternoon and he outlined to us his views as to it.
Secretary: What were his views?
Davis : As to whether we should have a General Commission for full discussion or whether we should try to deal with this question in the Bureau itself. He thought—we all agreed—that we should postpone the discussion for a day or two and perhaps we would avoid any public discussion and we would agree upon a comprehensive resolution under which we would adjourn and he outlined to us his own views as to what we might do which were substantially in accord with what is contained in our cable to you, 296, and he is going to work on that tonight and we are to get together tomorrow, but the thing that the Prime Minister wants to talk to us about was just how Baldwin would present this matter in Parliament because they were anxious, while taking their own position, not to oppose the President’s plan and in fact give it a more hearty approval in principle than they had heretofore.
Secretary: He wants Simon to present their views?
Davis : Whether we want a General Commission. Simon to make another statement and simultaneously to his Baldwin would make a statement in the House of Commons, that is what they want to talk over with us tomorrow, just exactly how it should be done and what the subject would be so that it would be entirely acceptable to us. It does look as if the spirit now is very greatly improved and the General Commission in that case would probably meet on Thursday.28
Secretary: Your plan is to see if you can work out with them an agreement on the resolution which would lay the foundation for an adjournment afterwards and, in the meanwhile, Baldwin will make a statement in the House of Commons.
[Page 266]Davis : That is right. But not before Thursday and not until after we have had a talk with the Prime Minister as to the way it should be done.
Secretary: I see. That sounds all right to me.
Davis : What do you think about our getting Simon to present the resolution here which would be the one involving its adjournment?
Secretary: After you had agreed to it.
Davis : Yes, after we had agreed to it because we couldn’t very well get up and present it.
Secretary: I see no reason against that, and I see a good many reasons for it.
Davis : That is what we did. That is good.
Secretary: Of course, he will present the resolution only after you know what it is.
Davis : Yes, after we have agreed on every word of it. I am more concerned about his speech and I think that is what the Prime Minister wants to talk to us about tomorrow.
Secretary: You had better be pretty careful about that.
Davis : Yes, I know it.
Secretary: I think if you get that arrangement carried out you will have gotten through a difficult situation much better than I thought you would at one time. Congratulations.
Davis : You can’t tell how the weather will change tomorrow.
Secretary: Yes, I know. Are you going to have a meeting today?
Davis : Right now, in about ten minutes.
Secretary: With the P.M. or Simon?
Davis : No, with the Bureau.
Secretary: And at that meeting you will probably be working on that resolution.
Davis : Yes, that is right.
Secretary: Thank you very much, I think I understand now. Good-by.