Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States, The Paris Peace Conference, 1919, Volume XI

Paris Peace Conf. 184.00101/152

Minutes of Meeting of the Commissioners and Technical Advisers of the American Commission to Negotiate Peace, Hotel Crillon, Paris, Thursday, September 18, 1919, 2:15 p.m.

Paris, September 18, 1919, 2:15 p.m.

• Present:
  • Mr. Polk
  • Mr. White
  • General Bliss
  • Admiral McCully
  • Dr. Scott
  • Mr. Nielsen
  • Mr. Woolsey
  • Mr. Buckler
  • Col. Embick
  • Col. Browning
  • Capt. Gordon
  • Capt. Chapin
  • Mr. Shaw
  • Lt. Condon
  • Mr. Russell
  • Mr. Barclay
  • Stenographer:—Mr. Carlson

Mr. Polk: Have you anything, Admiral?

Admiral McCully: I have made a memorandum of the work I have been covering during the last week, for information.

Mr. Polk: Has the blockade of the Baltic been brought up to you, Admiral?

Admiral McCully: Nothing has come to my attention in that connection except the decision that I have seen which was taken in the Supreme Council.

Mr. Polk: The British representatives have not raised the question at all?

Admiral McCully: No, sir.

Mr. Polk: You haven’t heard anything more from those people, Mr. Woolsey?

Mr. Woolsey: No, sir, not a thing.

Mr. Polk: Admiral, have you anything further that you want to bring up?

Admiral McCully: I thought I would mention again the distribution of war material. I have been trying to get all the data in regard to it,—have telegraphed and written for it, but have received no answer. And as the proceedings went on, I decided in accordance with what instructions I had. Apparently they want to make some changes. The officer is arriving tomorrow.

Mr. Polk: You want to delay action on that?

Admiral McCully: I want to delay action on that until I hear what he wants to say.

Mr. Polk: The officer who is arriving tomorrow is one of your officers?

Admiral McCully: Yes, sir. I would like to ask, for my information, in regard to these boards that I go to: what force any resolution that I join in has?

Mr. Polk: What boards are they?

Admiral McCully: In some there is nothing at all going on, but in the Baltic Commission and in the Commission on the Distribution of War Material, and in the Belgian Commission there are questions coming up, and I don’t like to approve the resolutions without knowing how much effect they have.

Mr. Polk: The Baltic Commission is not a commission of the Peace Conference, is it?

General Bliss: Not the Allied Commission; not the one which General Gough is on.

Mr. Polk: But there is a Baltic Commission appointed; there is a Baltic Commission sitting. If you will let me have a memorandum I will look it up.

Admiral McCully: The Baltic Commission which is handling the question of the entrances to the Baltic.

Mr. Polk: Have we anyone sitting on the board?

Admiral MoCully: There are three army officers there; I do not know if they are members. I did not see any of our representatives that I knew.

Mr. Polk: Will you let me have a memorandum on that, please. I am going to suggest that everyone hand in a list of the various commissions that they are sitting on (other than, of course, those concerned with the framing of the treaties and things of that kind), and see if we can adjourn those that are just hanging on; clean them up and get them out of the way.

General Bliss: The man that we had on the Baltic Commission has been withdrawn.

Mr. Polk: This Commission is examining the question and is going to report on the ultimate disposition of the Baltic Provinces; on the attitude to be taken. I am not positive, but I think Professor Coolidge was a member of that.

Admiral McCully: I have information as to what action they want to take, but I don’t know whether to join in that resolution, or simply to be considered as an adviser to this commission.

Mr. Polk: The latter is true of most of the commissions we are sitting on now; we are not supposed to have any official representatives on any of these commissions. But if you will let me have a list of the commissions, and if everyone else will do the same, I will take this matter up.

Admiral McCully: It is stipulated that the Baltic Commission shall not come to any decision in regard to the cession of any territory or international servitude; I would like to ask if that would guide me in any other decisions that might come up, if that same principle should govern me in case some other question came up in regard to that—that is, the Belgian Commission?

Mr. Polk: That Belgian Commission has to do with the question of the Scheldt, hasn’t it?

Admiral McCully: Yes, sir.

Mr. White: Do you sit on that?

Admiral McCully: I am adviser to our members.

Mr. Polk: Well, it is a perfectly safe rule to follow, about all these things, I think. Have you anything, Dr. Scott?

Dr. Scott: Nothing, except what you already know, that as far as the Drafting Committee is concerned, the Treaty with Hungary would be in general complete if it had the Fiume clauses in. I understand that something has happened there recently.

Mr. Polk: Are you going to put the Fiume matter in the Hungarian Treaty?

Dr. Scott: We intended to. There are three paragraphs left which can be entirely covered by the usual one; that Hungary accepts such disposition as may be made of this and that. And if that is your pleasure, the Treaty is ready.

Mr. Polk: Well, it is my pleasure as far as it goes, but the Italians do not stay hitched more than 24 hours at a time. If you can settle the Fiume question, and also produce a Hungarian government with which we can treat, you will be doing a great service to your country.

Dr. Scott: A large part of the Hungarian Treaty has been decided upon at different intervals by the Supreme Council, and with the general direction that the clauses dealing with various matters should, as far as possible, be based upon the Austrian clauses, it makes it a comparatively simple matter, but that one matter requires to be passed upon. If you care to have it mentioned, there is a space for it. If you would rather have the usual renunciatory clauses, there is no reason why the Hungarian Treaty should in any way wait in respect to the disposition of Fiume.

Mr. Polk: As I suggested, it would be very helpful if everyone would hand in to Mr. Grew a list of the committees you are on and matters pending in which they are engaged. I think there are a great many matters sort of dragging around that we ought to either send back to the Foreign Offices as not to be handled by the Peace Conference, or try to see if we cannot dispose of them. So if everyone will hand in a list of the committees you are on and the matters pending we will have it ready for next Wednesday. Have you anything, Colonel?

Col. Embick: No, sir.

Mr. Polk: Mr. Nielsen?

Mr. Nielsen: I will mention one thing, which, however, does not concern me: the Secretary-General asked me a little while ago whether we were to be represented on the Supreme Economic Council meeting at Brussels tomorrow.

Mr. Polk: We are not.

Mr. Nielsen: I supposed we were not, and I told him so.

Mr. Polk: Not only because the Senate does not desire it, but I think it would be very bad policy for us at the present moment. It is purely their show.

The Bulgarian Treaty will be handed in tomorrow. We had rather an interesting discussion about that. Their first idea was to let only the Council of Five be present, but it was pointed out that that would hardly be fair to the Greeks and the Serbians, who had considered that to be their particular show (or their particular funeral), and therefore they very grudgingly said we would let in the Balkan states, and then it was pointed out that the Belgians would be objecting, and finally they said they would let in the heads of the Delegations, but they did so very grudgingly, with very bad grace.

Mr. White: What is their point?

Mr. Polk: Their so-called courtesy is very much overestimated. Apparently the Secretary-General objected to it more than anyone else. We were finally able to get every power represented. This they very grudgingly agreed to. And they finally agreed to let ten representatives of the Press come in. As a matter of fact the other small powers seem to resent it more than Bulgaria.

Dr. Scott: Could you state whether a definite date has been determined upon within which the Bulgarians are expected to answer? I have seen various dates mentioned.

Mr. Polk: My recollection is bad on that; I am sorry Mr. Harrison isn’t here. Was it 21 or 25 days? Captain Chapin?

Captain Chapin: 25 days after presentation.

Mr. Polk. It is entirely too long. I fought for fifteen days. The thing should have been presented to them last week. This thing has been dragged along, and now finally it is to be presented tomorrow, and then they are to be given 25 days. The fact that it will take them fifteen days to get home would indicate that they are going to walk. I can’t understand why it should take them that long.

Mr. Woolsey: I think perhaps it would be well if the Commissioners were advised of a question that Admiral McCully has up in regard to the entrances to the Baltic.

Mr. Polk: The which?

Mr. Woolsey: I would rather have the Admiral state it, if he would.

Admiral McCully: I have copies of the matters that relate to this question, if you will take time to look them over. I have made copies of each one of the questions I have been dealing with, and what has happened to it during the week.

Mr. Polk: Which particular point do you have in mind, Mr. Woolsey?

Mr. Woolsey: I understand one of these committees on which the Admiral has been sitting—the Admiral has been discussing this point with me—has up now the British proposal to make the entrances to the Baltic available for warships in time of peace and in time of war, so that any country like Denmark or Sweden, which abuts the entrance could not mine the entrances and keep out all ships, as they did during the past war. They want us to join in some declaration to be made by the Council here to that effect. Now all the countries have treaties with Sweden [Denmark], I guess—anyway we have treaties covering those entrances, of 1857. The United States has a separate treaty of its own.³⁴ I think the treaties of Great Britain, France and other countries here are joint treaties, providing that the channels shall be open for vessels and their cargoes, and it would seem from the reading of the treaty that it refers to merchant vessels. Now the British would be satisfied if the Treaty was made to read, or understood to read: “merchant vessels and warships”. As far as the United States is concerned, I think it is a matter of negotiation with the countries that are on the Baltic.

Mr. Polk: It certainly is not the function of the Peace Conference to pass on that. If it comes up I would be inclined to send it to Washington. That would be your view too, wouldn’t it?

General Bliss: Yes.

Mr. Woolsey: Did I state the case properly, Admiral?

Admiral McCully: Yes. I could not quite understand why they should bring up a case of that kind and want some decision right away.

Mr. Polk: I have discussed this general question of policy with General Bliss and Mr. White and they are agreed that these questions are outside the work of the Peace Conference, and they should be taken up with the various Foreign Offices.

Admiral McCully: In the last meeting of the Commission on Baltic Affairs a resolution was introduced in regard to this thing, a resolution which had not been seen by any of us, and even the British naval adviser had not seen it before we got it. The Japanese, British and Italians agreed to it; the French said they could not see any objection.

Mr. Polk: I would like to know what the resolution was, what its scope is. Perhaps we had better have that looked up; in fact we had better look them all up and see what they are.

Mr. Woolsey: It looks as though they wanted the Council here to make a declaration as to the meaning of that Treaty.

Mr. Polk: It does not seem to me that that is its function.

Mr. Woolsey: Regardless of the other parties to the Treaty.

Mr. Polk: I can’t see the system at all. Is there anything else?

Mr. White: The French issued a suggestion that we should have a meeting on Ports and Waterways with a view to taking up the questions in the Treaty connected therewith, for the League of Nations. Is it desirable that we should take part in that?

Mr. Polk: We might sit in as a matter of curiosity, but until we ratify the Treaty we cannot take part.

Mr. White: It is not under the Treaty.

Mr. Polk: But it comes under the League of Nations?

Mr. White: No, it is proposed to take up and discuss the way in which these international questions of Ports, Waterways and Railways concerning the League of Nations, are to be worked out by the League, when they come up for discussion.

Lt. Condon: The French government has issued an invitation, suggesting that our government have a representative who would sit unofficially; in other words, they feel there are a number of those clauses that should be acted upon unofficially until the League of Nations comes into being, and they feel that the same men who have been handling those questions all during the discussion of the treaties here would be the most competent ones to sit in on these discussions.

Mr. White: Dr. Hudson telegraphed that he was coming back.

Mr. Polk: I don’t think we have a right to be represented on any such committee in the absence of instructions from Washington. Even last winter, when we had invitations to sit on anything not directly connected with the Peace Conference, we did not sit in.

Lt. Condon: But this is a continuation of the Ports and Waterways.

Mr. Polk: Who is handling that invitation now, do you know?

Lt. Condon: The invitation came through from the French.

Mr. Polk: Who is handling it here?

Mr. White: It came to me. M. Itachi, the Japanese, is very much interested in it; he is coming to see me directly.

Mr. Polk: Why not send it to Washington?

Mr. White: We had better send a telegram; that is probably the best thing.

Lt. Condon: It was arranged so that the French government send the invitation, in order that it would not seem to come from the Peace Conference at all.

Mr. Polk: It had better go to Washington.

Mr. Buckler: May I ask as to the best course to take in regard to the Albanians. They call on us here on an average of three times a week, and they make me very tired, for they are always assuming that there is a chance that we will take the mandate, and I tell them quite vigorously that they had better forget it.

Mr. Polk: No chance in the world.

Mr. Buckler: I have told them, along the line of General Phillips, that the best thing for them to do is to take the Italian protection; that she is a good friend of Albania, and that that is the best thing they can do. Do you think that is the best thing?

Mr. Polk: Yes.

Mr. Buckler: I was very reluctant to come to that, but that is the best thing I can suggest.

I have a feeling that we ought to be arranging about a financial expert familiar with all the intricacies of the Ottoman debt; we ought to be looking forward to having someone ready to serve in that capacity when the Turkish Treaty comes up for discussion. I don’t know personally of any one, but I think someone ought to be selected so he can work up the subject.

Mr. White: Have you anybody in view?

Mr. Buckler: I might suggest Mr. Hutchins, the National City Bank man, who has been in Constantinople for two or three months.

Mr. Polk: As a matter of fact I think the Turkish Treaty is going to take a different organization from the one we have at present. We don’t need experts on Teschen for that purpose—not that we haven’t an expert at the present moment on Teschen—but there are a good many subjects we haven’t got experts on. But it is rather my view that the Department should be called on to organize a new personnel for that purpose.

Mr. Buckler: That is a very good plan.

Mr. Polk: I assume that we are not going to touch the Turkish Treaty. Every time they take up anything in regard to Turkey we make the reservation that it is altogether temporary. For instance, with regard to this arrangement that Clemenceau and Lloyd George were discussing, I made it clear several times in the procès verbal that it was in no way binding on the United States, that it was purely temporary, provisional.

Mr. Buckler: Might it not be well to call [to] the Department’s attention that that particular thing is an extremely intricate one, and that it needs a certain amount of preparation?

Mr. White: Yes, we should. He ought to be down there studying it now.

Mr. Buckler: Yes, or studying the documents and preparing himself.

Mr. Polk: If you will prepare a telegram along that line I will send it.

Meeting adjourned at 2:50 p.m.

34. Convention between the United States and Denmark, signed April 11, 1857, Malloy, Treaties, 1776–1909, vol. i, p. 380.