Foreign Relations of the United States, 1894, Appendix II, Affairs in Hawaii

No. 46.
Interview with M. M. Scott.

Honolulu, Monday, April 10, 1893—9:20 a.m.

Mr. Blount. Please tell me the causes, the surface and the bottom causes of this movement, the action of the people here in establishing the Provisional Government.

Mr. Scott. There has been a conviction since I have been here—ten or eleven years—that under the reign of Kalakaua, with his methods of controlling legislation under the old constitution, that with the irresponsible voting and irresponsible legislators, being controlled by the royal power, that that form of government could but lead to disastrous results here under his reign.

Mr. Blount. You are referring to the condition before the constitution of 1887?

Mr. Scott. Yes; and his notorious corruption of members of the Legislature, especially Hawaiian members.

Mr. Blount. You now speak of prior to 1887?

Mr. Scott. Yes; that was the cause of that movement in 1887. Well, of course after his death (Kalakaua) the present Queen came on the throne, and, as you are perhaps aware, the first thing she did was the dismissal of the ministers who had been appointed by Kalakaua; I believe the supreme court giving a decision that she was not bound to retain them, although this ministry had a majority in the Legislature. I think the court decided that by his death the ministry went put.

Mr. Blount. Who were the judges of the court then?

Mr. Scott. Judd, Bickerton, and Dole.

Mr. Blount. Was it a unanimous decision?

Mr. Scott. I think it was; no, I am inclined to think, perhaps, that Dole dissented on the grounds—well, I have forgotten what. I will not testify about that. Then the people who had known the former Queen here—Liliuokalani, as she was called—while recognizing the fact that she was a very headstrong woman, thought that by giving her the support of the better element of the community she might change her course for the better, and they did flock around her, all the foreign community and the missionaries.

A missionary here means, in the political slang of the day, anyone who is not affiliated with a few of what I conceive to be the worst elements of demagogues. It makes no difference what he is, a non-believer or a Buddhist, if he affiliates with the party for good government he is generally called a missionary. They related around here, and a paper published here by Bush and a number of his followers declared, that the Queen had ignored the claims of her own people, paid no attention to them. His paper was nasty, as it usually is, and said all manner of disagreeable things about the Queen. The paper was the strongest advocate of annexation.

Mr. Blount. What is the name of the paper?

Mr. Scott. Ka Leo (this means “The Truth”). He even advocated taking her off her throne. Then came the election for the last Legislature, and of course they voted out the old ministry. This man Bush joined in with the opposition. The Queen positively declined having anything to do with Bush or Wilcox. She would not consent to give them any place because of the way in which they had assailed her personal life. Everyone knew she could not very well do it. Then they went along very slowly, this Legislature did, and voted out minister after minister.

Mr. Blount. Will you please state how many ministers were voted out?

Mr. Scott. About the middle of the session they voted out the whole ministry which she had appointed when they went in—Widdeman, Whiting, Parker, and Spencer.

Mr. Blount. When was that?

Mr. Scott. About the middle of the session, after they had been going about two months.

Mr. Blount. Of 1892?

Mr. Scott. Yes. Then, after a vacation of two or three weeks, after political log-rolling, they tried to get her to listen to the appointment of a good ministry. All at once there was the appointment of another ministry, consisting of Macfarlane, Neumann, Parker, and Gulick.

Mr. Blount. The former had been voted out?

Mr. Scott. Yes. They immediately took a vote of want of confidence against it after they went in and failed by one—24 to 25. They then went on not more than two weeks more, and brought up a vote of confidence and carried it largely—35 to 15. The natives voted against them.

Mr. Blount. Against the cabinet?

Mr. Scott. Yes, against the cabinet.

Mr. Blount. What cabinet was that?

Mr. Scott. That was the second one—Neumann, Macfarlane, Spencer, Porter, and Gulick. After a vacation of some days, it is said, she came to her senses, and really was desirous of putting in a ministry that would please the Legislature and a majority of the property-holders of the country. They put in then this ministry: P. C. Jones, minister of finance; Cecil Brown (an Englishman) attorney-general; George Wilcox, of Kanai, one of the largest property-holders in the country, minister of the interior, and a half-white man, Mark Robinson, also a large property-owner, minister of foreign affairs. That was a ministry suitable to all classes of the community. All the better element joined in expressing satisfaction—English, German, Americans—ail were perfectly satisfied with them.

That went on, and it was supposed, until a few days before the adjournment of the Legislature, that that would hold. In the meantime they declared a policy—the first ministry that had had nerve enough to say anything about what their policy was going to be. The other ministry was afraid to say whether they were opposed to the bank bill or the lottery bill. They did not know how to please the Hawaiians. They said they should fight for retrenchment and make the expenses of the Government come within the income. They were opposed decidedly to the lottery scheme, to the Horner bank bill, and to the opium bill. Then it was thought that they would hold until a few days before the adjournment, when it was found there had been a majority got for the lottery bill and the opium bill also. The Queen said if she could pass these two bills her ministry would have to resign.

Three days, I think it was, before the adjournment they passed the lottery bill and the opium bill. They let the bank bill go, becaue the natives were not so particular about that. They wanted the lottery. So that passed, and then the better element of the community here got around these ministers and said: “Do not resign; leave it to the Legislature to vote you out.” They did not resign. I had talked with some of them. They said they could not afford to resign, and then the day before the adjournment—the next day after they passed these bills—she signed them immediately, although delegations here from the Woman’s Temperance Union and the churches called upon her and asked her not to do so. Then, the night after they passed them, they went around to Mr. C. A. Berger, a son-in-law of Mr. Widemann, to get him to vote to put out the ministry. They told him if he would vote for putting out the ministry they would let his father-in-law form a cabinet for the Queen.

Mr. Blount. Let me ask you a question on that point. What is the evidence of this promise?

Mr. Scott. Mr. Berger’s own statement to various gentlemen around here.

Mr. Blount. Who are they?

Mr. Scott. I do not know that I can mention any. It was put out at the club by Mr. Cecil Brown. I do not know that he told me so himself. It is certainly true. It is common talk. Perhaps, however, you do not wish to take this.

Mr. Blount. I wish to take all you have to say.

Mr. Scott. I am positive all this is true. So far as my feelings go in the politics of this community I have no interest. After they voted them out Mr. Widdeman was sent for. She began to name the cabinet she had chosen. She said the office of minister of the interior was tilled by Mr. Colburn. “Oh, then,” said Mr. Widdeman, “I will have nothing do with it. I should do all the work and get all the blame. I will have nothing to do with it.”

Mr. Blount. Was the minister of the interior the only one named?

Mr. Scott. The minister of finance, Mr. Cornwell.

Mr. Blount. Now, any others?

Mr. Scott. I do not know of any others.

Mr. Blount. It was at this point that he, Widdeman, declared he would have nothing to do with it?

Mr. Scott. Yes.

Mr. Blount. How did you get that information?

Mr. Scott. I got it from people to whom Mr. Widemann told it. I got it from several people who visited his house, whose veracity I can certainly vouch for.

Mr. Blount. That’s enough.

Mr. Scott. Then immediately she appointed Mr. Colburn, Mr. Peterson, Mr. Cornwell, and Mr. Parker. Then came the morning of the prorogation. A majority of what is called the Reform party—that is, I think, all of them in fact did not appear at the prorogation.

Mr. Blount. What was their idea for absenting themselves?

Mr. Scott. They were so disgusted, Mr. Blount, with the last week or ten days of the Legislature, the means used to get the ministry out and the substitution of a ministry that nobody had confidence in. They made no concerted action. I do not think they went together, but each one resolved within himself he would not appear there anymore. They saw the futility of having worked four or five or six months of this session; they wanted to get to their business. They had large business interests out on the Islands. They got tired and disgusted with this idle talk.

Mr. Blount. Will you allow me to ask you there—the men who absented themselves—what class of people did they belong to?

Mr. Scott. They belonged to what is generally known as the Reform party—that is, to reform the methods of politics and legislation. Such men as Young, of the iron works; Walbridge, of Waliuku, manager of a plantation; Anderson, one of the nobles of Waliuku, and AI Wilcox, of Kuai, owner of a plantation. That class of men. The most responsible men in the community.

Mr. Blount: Generally large property owners?

Mr. Scott: Yes, and representatives of property interests.

Mr. Blount: Who made up the other side; what class of men?

Mr. Scott: About fifteen natives, whose names you could not write down, coming from various outer districts. Did not, perhaps, represent $500 worth of property in the country. The men on this side who did represent property were Cummins, who had a large property once, but, like all other Hawaiians, wasted it and is heavily in debt, and Peterson (he was in the ministry).

Mr. Blount. These were both natives?

Mr. Scott. Yes. I do not know of any white men on that side. I think perhaps a few, three or four, did remain just for appearance’s sake.

Mr. Blount. Let me ask you, were they all natives on that side?

Mr. Scott. The side that stayed in?

Mr. Blount. Yes.

Mr. Scott. Yes. Generally natives.

Mr. Blount. What else besides natives?

Mr. Scott. They were nearly all natives. Some few half-castes like Mr. White, of Lahaina. They were nearly all natives or half white men. The English, I think, and the Americans, the nobles and the representative men, all absented themselves to a man. At the time I was at Wakiki, I moved out to Wakiki, I think it was about 2 o’clock.

Mr. Blount. What day?

Mr. Scott: The same day. I think it was about 2 o’clock Saturday. I have forgotten the day of the month. We were startled at Wakiki—we were all there on Saturday afternoon. We heard that the Queen had proclaimed a new constitution. I do not know whether the message was that she had or was going to proclaim a new constitution. Everybody was on the qui vive. I did not go up at all. It seems that she had invited a number of legislators, I do not know how many, over to the palace to partake of some kind of a collation, but before the collation came around, I believe it was before, she sent for the ministers. She was dressed in her robes of state. She said she had prolaimed this constitution or was going to and wanted them to sign it, I was told, without reading it.

I was told by men who were there. This is hearsay. When they said they had not read it she said, “Why do you say so, when you have had it in your pocket three weeks.” She told them she did not want to hear any more advice. She said, “You know if I go out and proclaim it to my people they may come in and tear you limb from limb.”

Mr. Blount. How did you get that information? Just in the same way?

Mr. Scott. I got it from Chief Justice Judd. He said she looked like a fiend.

Mr. Blount. Please go on.

Mr. Scott. Well, I believe it was told me, two or more were inclined to sign. Peterson and Colburn refused, and asked for time. They went over to the Government building. Colburn went down to W. O. Smith’s office and asked what support they could get from the community if they refused to sign it. He advised them not to sign it; said that they would have the support of all the better element of the community.

Mr. Blount. What do you mean by what support they could get from the community?

Mr. Scott. In case they refused to sign it. They were frightened to death—thinking of the Kalakaua riots. They went to the men they were in political opposition to for support, knowing they were the only men to be depended upon. They knew they had real backbone. This was told them by Thurston, Smith, Castle, Emmeluth, and others. Mr. Emmeluth is a mechanic. He is a man of sound sense. He told me that this constitution was coming two weeks before. Then immediately the men around the street went into Smith’s office and organized this committee of thirteen.

Mr. Blount. Yes.

Mr. Scott. I noticed—I did not come to town—that there was a meeting at the armory that evening.

Mr. Blount. Before going on further, what was the size of the crowd at Smith’s office?

Mr. Scott. That I cannot tell. There were the thirteen there. I do not know how many more.

Mr. Blount. Please go on.

Mr. Scott. On Monday morning I noticed there was a meeting at the armory. The notice was to the effect that all who were opposed to the late revolutionary methods of the Queen would meet at the armory. I think that was at 2 o’clock. I am principal of a school of 300 white children. A great many rumors came up, one that the meeting was going to be opposed by martial force. Mothers came in carriages after their daughters and sons, especially the small ones. I concluded it was better to dismiss the children and let them go home before the excitement commenced in the streets. I did. I went down to this meeting. It was assembled at the armory. I should judge there must have been twelve or fifteen hundred people there.

Mr. Blount. Were you present at the meeting?

Mr. Scott. Yes; I was present at the meeting. I saw very few Hawaiians there. I saw one or two Chinese. It was a meeting of Americans, Englishmen, and Germans. The fact is it represented the property of the community.

Mr. Blount. What institution of learning are you connected with?

Mr. Scott. I am principal of the Fort street school. I did not know what the procedure was going to be. I was afraid there would be trouble. I fully looked for it. I knew there was a determination on the part of the men. I knew they would do whatever they wished to do. W. C. Wilder was chairman of the meeting. There was Thurston there. Wilder stated that it was for no clique this meeting was called. It was for the whole community. He said they wanted to have this kind of thing stopped. Thurston gave an outline of the proceedings from Saturday up to the present time, what had occurred at the palace. The resolutions were read, as you know, for that committee of thirteen to take proceedings so as to insure tranquility and confidence in the community, That is the best of my recollection. I speak from memory.

The Germans were largely represented by the best Germans in the community and after several speeches by various men and after I read the resolutions over I knew perfectly well it meant some radical measures. We were not aware of just what it meant. I talked with no one. I said to myself it means business. The resolutions were passed unanimously with one dissenting voice, with Mr. S. R. Walker against it. He was vice-consul for England. He was well aware, he said, some measures had to be taken, but he thought it left too large a latitude for the committee. Mr. Swanzey, his partner, voted for it.

Mr. Blount. Is Mr. Walker engaged in business here?

Mr. Scott. He is head of the firm of Theo. Davis & Co. Mr. Davis is in England.

Mr. Blount. What sort of business?

Mr. Scott. A large importing house; importing goods of every nature. It is as large a store as may be found in San Francisco or New York. They are agents for a number of plantations—sell large amounts of goods for the use of the laborers.

Mr. Blount. What plantations are they agents for?

Mr. Scott. I can not give the names of them; three or four in Kohala. I can not name them just now; several in Hamakua, the most productive districts; two in Hilo, very large. He is a shrewd business man—made his fortune out of the bounty of the United States.

Mr. Blount. What bounty do you mean?

Mr. Scott. Sugar; the reciprocity treaty. He was as poor as Job’s turkey when he came here. He is now opposed to everything American. I went home. This was 2 o’clock, Monday. At 7 o’clock at night we had three or four telephonic messages about the landing of the troops. In this connection this committee of thirteen had got together and had asked the minister, I believe, to take precautions against disorder—they did not know what might occur—to take the precaution of landing troops. Some of them went down to Arion Hall. Next morning I came up town about 10 o’clock. I heard they were going to dethrone the Queen and establish the Provisional Government. At 2 o’clock—no, half past 1—I went to the Government building. I then went up to the Rifles’ armory. They were piling in arms.

Mr. Blount. Who?

Mr. Scott. The supporters of the intended Provisional Government and citizens. I did not know there were so many arms in the country. The people were grouping together.

Mr. Blount. Was it a Government armory?

Mr. Scott. No; it had been used for a skating rink and dancing hall. It was the place the meeting was held in the day before. Then I came down town. I was in Fort street. I heard the pop of a gun. Doors were suddenly shut, and there was great excitement. I went to the corner, and was told a policemen had been shot. A loaded wagon with arms from Hall & Sons was going to the armory. The policeman tried to stop it. The fellow (the driver) pulled out a pistol and shot the policeman in the arm or chest, or somewhere.

Mr. Blount. What was the character of the guns at the armory?

Mr. Scott. They were guns, I think, that had been carried from their homes during the movement of 1887. Generally Springfield rifles. They had kept them at their homes since that movement. They said they had four or five hundred. They were taken just as soon as they were got in. Zeigler, a German, and two or three others got their companies out and inarched out to the Government building.

Mr. Blount. Were these volunteer companies?

Mr. Scott. Yes; a great many had belonged to the movement of 1887. They were well drilled men and splendid shots. They inarched down to the Government building. I suppose there were 300. They marched down in half an hour. Then that proclamation was read. I stayed around there awhile. Wilcox said he thought there was going to be a fight. He had just come from the station house. They did not know what to do. He said the ministers were all in the building. They seemed paralyzed; did not know what to do. I said, “Who is going to fight?” He said the police. I said, “Oh, pshaw.”

Mr. Blount. Who are you talking about?

Mr. Scott. Luther Wilcox. I stayed around some time. Finally I saw a man from the station house come into the Government building. Then I heard the station house was going to give up. I said to a man afterwards, “What made you fellows give up?” He said, “We did not know how well they were prepared.” The fact is, the Hawaiian, when he comes in contact with the white man, looks to be directed by him. He is loath to oppose him in any way.

Mr. Blount. Well, if you will continue with your narrative?

Mr. Scott. I was telling you about this police station. They said they thought it was no use to resist. They put it on the grounds afterwards that it was seeing the Boston’s men ashore. The fact is the Boston presence there was nothing. I talked to the officers. They said they had nothing to do with it beyond a matter of security. They had no intention and there was no possibility of their taking any part any more than they did in 1889 when they were landed for Mr. Merrill. Mr. Soper had taken charge of the marshal’s office and things were as quiet next day as they had been before this whole thing so far as the movement goes. Then three days after they sent this commission to Washington. That is all I know about this.

I will say this in passing, Mr. Blount: It is the people who want to make a living and bring up families who favor annexation. They recognize the Hawaiian as going. He will be nil. They recognize the fact that this country, left as it is, would become Asiaticized. With the dying out of this dynasty it must become Asiaticized or Americanized. There are eighteen or twenty thousand Japanese here—the very worst class. Now, Mr. Blount, if you want to know anything about the Japanese—

Mr. Blount. I do not care to go into that now. I may later.

Mr. Scott. I want to say in regard to the report about the Boston’s men bringing this about, that the Boston had gone to Hilo ten days before this—I am not sure how long—taking Minister Stevens and his daughter, who was drowned, and the Boston did not get back until Saturday morning. I think it was 11 o’clock when she entered—11 or after. The fact is no one expected this. It came like a clap of thunder, except to those on the inside.

Mr. Blount. Ho you think the absence of the Boston had anything to do with the Queen selecting that time for the purpose of proclaiming the new constitution?

Mr. Scott. I have heard it said. It was generally believed around here at that time that it was so. If it had remained here perhaps she would not have taken that course. I can not say, however; I do not know.

Mr. Blount. I ask you for this reason: I happened to take up this book (Senate Ex. Doc. No. 76, Fifty-second Congress, second session). In a letter dated Honolulu, January 18, 1893, from Mr. Stevens to Mr. Foster, Mr. Stevens says: “Immediately after the Boston and myself had left Honolulu the unscrupulous adventurers around the Queen improved the opportunity to push through the Legislature an astounding lottery franchise, with the obvious intent to sell it out to the Louisiana lottery men.”

Mr. Scott. I went up to Mr. Stevens. He said, in speaking of Capt. Wiltse, that he talked a good deal, but, after all, he was a man of unusual information here. He (Capt. Wiltse) said they were going to pass the lottery bill and put out the ministry. He (Mr. Stevens) paid no attention to it. He hardly thought so, because if he had thought they were going to pass the lottery bill he should not have gone. He said Capt. Wiltse was perfectly sure—talked about it all the while up. When they got back to Lahaina they heard they had passed the lottery bill.

Mr. Blount. Why would they do it in the absence of Capt. Wiltse and Mr. Stevens?

Mr. Scott. Mr. Stevens told me that in view of the fact that the United States Government had forbidden lottery literature to circulate through the mails he should have protested against that bill. He told me that himself. I am satisfied that there was a settled intention on the part of the Queen to get this constitution and appoint that house of nobles.

Mr. Blount. Do you imagine they would take advantage of the absence of Mr. Stevens to do that? Did they apprehend anything more than a protest; or what is your opinion; or have you any knowledge on that point?

Mr. Scott. I have no knowledge. I am inclined to think that in view of the relations of the two governments that any protests made by the United States ought to have a decided influence upon anything of that kind. That is what I judge. I know nothing, of course.

Early in the session Mr. Macfarland, who is a member of the Legislature, got up and asked the ministers if they had taken any measures to rebuke something the American minister had said at a Grand Army of the Republic meeting. They voted to table it almost unanimously.

Mr. Blount. What was the point of offense?

Mr. Scott. He spoke about the civil war. He referred to the action of the South; that they deemed their cause good; that the United States Government did not arrest men for treason, or something of that kind. Anyway, Mr. Macfarland thought he saw an allusion to the condition of things here. No one else seemed to think so.

Mr. Blount. What is the condition of opinion in the islands as to the Provisional Government?

Mr. Scott. Of course it has the support in Honolulu and in the other islands of the property owners generally and the more stable and responsible elements of the people. There are certain men, quite a number, who were adherents of the Kalakaua régime who do not indorse the Queen’s action. There is a good deal of bitterness here against what is called the missionary element. “Missionary” is a very vague term. It has no significance at all. It is the responsible element in a community like this. They are not liked by the natives, who prefer to follow demagogues who give them fair promises. They are easily led.

Mr. Blount, Do they always follow that class?

Mr. Scott. They follow it implicitly I assure you.

Mr. Blount. Who, then, would you say were the leaders of the Kanakas?

Mr. Scott. There is White, of Lahina; Mr. Parker, Mr. Nahawi, of Hilo; Mr. Bush, the editor of Ka Leo; and, I might say, Mr. R. W. Wilcox. There was one time when he was the greatest leader among them.

Mr. Blount. What influence has he now?

Mr. Scott. I think he has espoused the side of annexation now, and perhaps he is not so popular; but I think they are all what might be termed annexationists, or a majority.

Mr. Blount. A majority of what?

Mr. Scott. Kanakas.

Mr. Blount. In favor of annexation?

Mr. Scott. Yes; I said once to White, “What is your opinion on the subject?” He said all were for annexation, but they did not wish to be disfranchised. That is what they fear. They do not care for the Queen. I believe two-thirds would be in favor of annexation if this matter of the franchise could be satisfactorily explained to them. The Princess Kauilani is not a favorite with the people; they do not want her to reign. They have said we only wish the Queen to reign her reign out and then we want the United States to take care of us. The English would like to have Kauilani reign. They are a very responsible set of men—large property owners. They wish to see good government. None of the Queen’s friends wanted Kauilani. They say the English will have all influence with Kauilani. The old Hawaiian is an excellent man. You put him in certain relations and let the white man give him advice. He is a noble fellow, and looks up to the white man as to a feudal lord. He wishes to know “What am I to do?” He wishes to be taken care of.

Mr. Blount. What do you mean by “old Hawaiians?”

Mr. Scott. I mean those not mixed with foreign blood; those who have something of the old native character. He is as simple as a child. There are about thirty-five or forty thousand.

Mr. Blount. Do you mean when you speak of the native Hawaiians, that there are thirty-five or forty thousand?

Mr. Scott. Yes.

Mr. Blount. That is what I want to get at.

Mr. Scott. I think probablay great many of them have a tincture of foreign blood in them.

Mr. Blount. Let me ask you: Is it generally true that the controversies with Kalakaua prior to 1887, subsequent to 1887, and up to the revolution largely followed the lines of a racial division?

Mr. Scott. Yes; he began that after—

Mr. Blount. I am not asking about the time when they began to talk cheap politics. What I want to know is this: Whether or not prior to 1887, subsequent to 1887, and down to the revolution the controversies followed racial lines.

Mr. Scott. This present revolution?

Mr. Blount. Yes; were the contests generally parallel with racial lines?

Mr. Scott. They were.

Mr. Blount. Did these contests, parallel to what we have termed racial lines, grow but of difference of opinion on questions of taxation or questions of taxation and legislation? How did they grow?

Mr. Scott. No; they grew out of office. Mr. Gibson advised it.

Mr. Blount. Please bring that out.

Mr. Scott. In the spring of 1882, when they held the election here, he advised it. He was the originator of the phrase “Hawaii for Hawaiians.” He was a man of marked ability. He was the president of the board of education. He made speeches couched in careful language when the foreigners would see or hear them. He spoke Hawaiian well. His cry was “Hawaii for Hawaiians.” He said to the people, the missionary has not been your friend. He leaves no opening for you. He leaves no outlet for you. He does not wish you to hold office. He (Gibson) puffed up Kalakaua with the idea that he could be emperor of all the Pacific islands. The planters and commercial community generally were against Gibson as being an unsafe adviser.

On leaving Mr. Scott spoke of certain statistics he had prepared and which had been sent to Washington. Col. Blount did not care to go into it.

April 14, 1893.

I have read over the foregoing report and pronouce it to be a correct one in every particular.

M. M. Scott.