Office of the Historian

107. Memorandum of Conversation1

Washington, September 27, 1985, 6:30–10 p.m.

PARTICIPANTS

  • U.S. SIDE

    • Secretary Shultz
    • Mrs. Shultz
    • Interpreter E. Arensberger

  • SOVIET SIDE

    • Foreign Minister Shevardnadze
    • Mrs. Shevardnadze
    • Interpreter V. Churkin

During the course of the dinner Secretary Shultz said to F.M. Shevardnadze that he’s known President Reagan for a long time, and that this is a man who, before he has dealings with someone, wants to “size the man up,” see what kind of man this is, try to understand him. From what little he has seen of Gorbachev, the Secretary continued, he thinks that Gorbachev is the same type of person. Therefore, it is [Page 447] very important that President Reagan and General Secretary Gorbachev have a chance to get together in Geneva, just the two of them (and their interpreters), in order to come to know one another. The Secretary suggested that he and Shevardnadze be instrumental in arranging such a meeting in Geneva. It need not necessarily be before the official sessions; it could be in between, or even after. But he felt very strongly that such a meeting is most important, because these two powerful men can do more for the world than any other force.

Shevardnadze agreed that Gorbachev is like President Reagan in wanting to understand, get to know, the man he is dealing with. The type of meeting the Secretary has suggested could be useful and important, but he did not have any particular ideas on time.

Shevardnadze said he has known Gorbachev for many years. He characterized Gorbachev as resourceful, strong, energetic and wanting much for his country. Gorbachev has recently been touring the country, talking to many people in all walks of life, and one message is heard everywhere—peace. The Soviet people are afraid of and do not want war. They have suffered too much from war. He said that he himself is the last of four brothers. His three older brothers died in World War II.

Personal note: Both F.M. and Mrs. Shevardnadze spoke with enthusiasm of their home in Georgia, where Shevardnadze grows his own grapes and makes his own wine, keeps honey bees, and plants his own garden. Now that they’re in Moscow, Mrs. Shevardnadze said, someone else is collecting the honey and the grapes. Otherwise, Shevardnadze was not forthcoming at all on his personal interests, turning such questions into a description of the natural beauties of his native Georgia.

  1. Source: Reagan Library, George Shultz Papers, Secretary’s Meetings with Shevardnadze (09/24/1987) (2); NLR–775–21–40–1–3. Secret; Sensitive. The dinner took place at Shultz’s residence. No drafting information appears on the memorandum of conversation.↩