114. Memorandum of Conversation1
SUBJECT
- Summary of the President’s telephone conversation with FRG Chancellor Helmut Schmidt
PARTICIPANTS
- President Jimmy Carter
- Chancellor Helmut Schmidt
The Chancellor: Helmut Schmidt speaking. Hello Jimmy.
The President: Hello Helmut. Are you back in Germany?
The Chancellor: Yes, and I read in the news that you are up for a very important trip to the Middle East.2
The President: Yes, I am; I understand you were just in Egypt?
The Chancellor: I beg your pardon?
The President: Were you recently in Egypt?
The Chancellor: No.
The President: Okay, well it’s a pleasure to hear from you, Helmut.
The Chancellor: When will you leave?
The President: Tomorrow afternoon.
The Chancellor Let me please express my sincere wishes for a good outcome. It is very important.
The President: Well, thank you. We do not have any assurance of success, but I think we have a sure prospect of failure if I don’t make this effort. And I’ve always been able to count on Sadat to help me as much as possible; so for that reason I decided to go.
The Chancellor: I will have a major security debate in my parliament day after tomorrow, and I would like to use this opportunity to, well, for whatever is appropriate morally or politically or psychologically—express our full wishes for that mission. We would also review what we said in Guadeloupe as regards for—in order to get SALT II to an end and ratified on both ends. And I would also—I do also intend to, in a way that is a benefit to public views, to re-express the basic conceptions which I mentioned in Guadeloupe.3
The President: Very good.
The Chancellor: I would like to have a question in this context. Would it be appropriate at this time to mention that within the Alliance we are very pleased in evaluating absolutely on one side the deployment proposals but on the other side also the arms control aspects.
The President: Yes, that would be perfectly alright; in fact, I believe that it would be helpful.
The Chancellor: Good.
The President: I don’t know how you feel about publicly expressing concern about the inequality of capability—bringing into the question the SS–20, for instance—but whatever you might do to publicize the problem as expressed through your own eyes and from your own perspective I think it would be very good, and if you could emphasize the harmony with which we ourselves have consulted on this already and my pledges to continue this process during the time following SALT II, all those elements would be helpful not only to yourself but to me and our countries.
The Chancellor: I would certainly do so. I will mention the fact that the SS–20 buildup is giving us concern.
The President: Good.
The Chancellor: And then go on as you just said, that we have been talking about it, that we are approaching that complex of problems in harmony and cooperation. And I would also take the opportunity to repudiate a remark Brezhnev made three days ago that the Federal Republic of Germany was under strong pressure from the Pentagon. I don’t know whether you have seen that remark.
The President: Helmut, strong pressure from what?
The Chancellor: I beg your pardon?
The President: What was, you said that the Federal Republic was under strong pressure, I didn’t understand the rest of the sentence.
The Chancellor: He said we were under strong pressure from the Pentagon.
The President: Oh.
The Chancellor: . . . to station American weapons in Germany.
The President: I see. Well, obviously we have no desire nor ability to put pressure on a sovereign nation with a leader so great as you.
The Chancellor: We’ll deny it, we’ll repudiate it.
The President: Yes.
The Chancellor: I would also like to tell you, to say a word about defense in the Western, especially the German context.
The President: Yes.
The Chancellor: And (inaudible)
The President: I understand. The only thought I have is that in your repudiation of Brezhnev I hope that the press could not misinterpret that as any lessening of our joint commitment to keep a strong NATO.
The Chancellor: I am not sure what I understood is correct. Could you repeat it in simpler words please.
The President: Yes. In your repudiation of what Brezhnev said I just hope that the press and the public will not misinterpret your statement and that we can let the public know that you and I and our nations are jointly committed to a strong NATO.
The Chancellor: I also intend to quote you in regards to your speech in Atlanta, the last paragraph where you talk about, the end of your speech where you talk about the decisiveness with which America was carrying out its tasks.4 You remember that paragraph?
The President: Yes. It sounds much better the way you said it than the way I said it. (laughter) Yes, I remember it well.
The Chancellor: I have the original text of that speech. It sounds very well in German, Jimmy.
The President: Very good. (laughter) But you honor me when you quote my speeches, and I thank you for it.
The Chancellor: Yes.
The President: Helmut, don’t ever hesitate to call me any time.
The Chancellor: Yes. After having seen the two pieces again in the press, especially in Newsweek, I’m really trying to give us some picture of, as well as the organization side and the development and technical side, the arms control side.5
The President: I think that would all be very helpful because the press seems to be naturally inclined to exaggerate any differences and to create differences that don’t even exist.
The Chancellor: That’s certainly true.
The President: You may have noticed that in Germany too. (laughter)
The Chancellor: Yes. And in American newspapers as well.
The President: (laughter) Well it’s always a pleasure to talk to you, and whenever anything comes up that I can help with, be sure to let me know.
The Chancellor: Thank you very much, Jimmy, and I’m looking forward to hear from you and to see you in June in your Capital.6
The President: Okay, we will be working hard to get the Multilateral Trade Negotiations completed, we appreciate your help on that.
The Chancellor: I was told that you were very satisfied.
The President: Good. We have also given the Saudis . . .
The Chancellor: I want to publicly applaud Strauss, I mean the American Strauss, not the German Strauss.
The President: I understand. (laughter) I might also add, Helmut, that we have given the Saudis our assurance that we will help them to terminate the conflict between North and South Yemen and this is a great concern to us. I hope that we can see the complete withdrawal of the Chinese from Vietnam, they’ve given us assurance I understand to you also, that that is their intention and they’ve actually begun the withdrawal.
The Chancellor: (inaudible)
The President: I’m sorry?
The Chancellor: I hope that they are militarily strong enough to in fact disentangle their troops.
The President: Yes. I have gotten a report today that that process is underway. We can’t predict the future, but so far they seem to be successfully carrying out their public commitment. Well good luck to you and . . .
The Chancellor: Well good luck to you and especially to your mission in the Middle East.
The President: Well, thank you and give Loki my love.
The Chancellor: I will certainly and please give my regards to Mrs. Carter.
The President: Thank you Helmut, very much, goodby.
- Source: Carter Library, National Security Affairs, Brzezinski Material, Subject File, Box 37, Memcons: President, 2–3/79. Secret. Carter spoke to Schmidt from the Oval Office.↩
- From March 8 to 13, Carter visited Egypt and Israel.↩
- In telegram 3897 from Bonn, March 2, Stoessel reported that in a March 1 talk Schmidt expressed his concerns about possible U.S.-FRG misunderstandings on TNF, saying that “he wanted to make clear that he continued to adhere completely to the statements he had made to the President at Guadaloupe. The Federal Government under his direction would do its full part to close any gaps in the deterrent strength of the West in the European theater, and he said we should not be distracted by what Wehner or others in the SPD may say from time to time. Schmidt said: ‘I can handle them.’ However, he stressed repeatedly that, as he had explained at Guadeloupe, the FRG could not be the only country in NATO Europe where long-range nuclear weapons are deployed in the future.” (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, P840133–2230)↩
- For Carter’s February 20 speech at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, see Public Papers: Carter, 1979, pp 300–306.↩
- Telegram 4783 from London, March 8, transmitted the text of an article by Jonathan Carr entitled “Marked Deterioration in U.S.-German Relations,” which appeared on the front page of the March 7 edition of the Financial Times. The telegram noted: “A senior Financial Times staffer in a position to know indicated to Embassy that the story reflects remarks made by Helmut Schmidt during last week’s Aspen Institute conference in Berlin.” (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, D790111–0378) Telegram 61280 to Bonn, March 13, transmitted the text of an article entitled “Schmidt Goes His Own Way,” which appeared in the March 12 edition of Newsweek. (National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, D790115–1210)↩
- See Document 118.↩