Foreign Relations of the United States, 1977–1980, Volume XXII, Southeast Asia and the Pacific

248. Memorandum of Conversation¹

Washington, November 9, 1977, 9–9:30 a.m.

SUBJECT

• Meeting Between Prime Minister Robert D. Muldoon of New Zealand and Secretary of Defense Harold Brown

PARTICIPANTS

• U.S.

  • The Secretary
  • The Deputy Secretary
  • U.S. Ambassador to New Zealand, Armistead Selden
  • Dep Asst Secretary, East Asia & Pacific Affairs, Morton I. Abramowitz
  • Deputy Asst Secretary of State, East Asia & Pacific Affairs, Robert Oakley
  • RADM Thor Hanson, Mil Asst

• New Zealand

  • Prime Minister Muldoon
  • Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Frank Corner
  • Permanent Head, Prime Minister’s Department, Bernard Galvin
  • Director, Americas Division, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, William Plimmer
  • Ambassador Lloyd White
  • Defense Attache Harry Honor

1. Prime Minister Muldoon opened the meeting by stating his appreciation for the cooperation of the United States in defense matters and emphasizing the importance of ANZUS to New Zealand. He said New Zealand wanted to play an even more active part in ANZUS.

2. SecDef emphasized the importance the U.S. attached to ANZUS and the need for a close relationship among the United States, New Zealand, and Australia. He also expressed the importance of the Pacific to the US and our determination to remain a power in East Asia.

3. Prime Minister Muldoon said that one important role New Zealand saw for herself was to help keep the newly independent States of the South Pacific cooperative and “relaxed” about great power rivalry. He thought the States of the area were doing well.

4. The Prime Minister spoke of the resumption of US nuclear warship visits and urged the US to increase their frequency—that it was important in New Zealand to do so. The increase in NPW visits was necessary to accustom the New Zealand public to them so they take such visits as a normal occurrence. New Zealand would like a continuing combination of nuclear powered and conventional warships. SecDef expressed U.S. appreciation to Muldoon for allowing the resumption of NPW visits and said we would do what we can to make them a more regular occurrence. The Prime Minister said that the question of radiation monitoring for these visits had recently been resolved.

5. Speaking of the New Zealand Army battalion now garrisoned in Singapore, the Prime Minister said that Lee Kuan-yew had told him privately that the battalion could stay or could go—that he was not adverse to having it remain there. From his point of view retaining the battalion in Singapore had the advantages of giving the opportunity to train in a jungle area, offering travel abroad for the soldiers, and also providing a good image for New Zealand in South East Asia because of the large number of Maori troops in the battalion. He went on to say that if the battalion did have to be removed, New Zealand would be looking for US help in finding another training location. SecDef responded that he thought the present arrangement was helpful to stability in the area. If it were necessary to withdraw the battalion we would be glad to look into joint US/New Zealand training opportunities; he mentioned Guam as a possible spot. He hoped it would not be necessary.

6. Prime Minister Muldoon said that New Zealand has a joint defense purchasing agreement with Australia that has the aim of promoting standardization of equipment within the two military forces. He said that the agreement is fine in theory but is not producing much for New Zealand because the Australians want to dictate all the purchases. The Prime Minister just offered this for information—with no request for help.

7. The Prime Minister spoke of the proposed New Zealand-USSR fishing agreement, making the economic arguments for the argument, and saying that New Zealand would probably have to license some Soviet fishing trawlers. He asked whether New Zealand should allow the Soviets any shore installations. SecDef said our only concern was that such installations could well result in intelligence collection and urged New Zealand to be mindful of the problem. We had extensive exchanges with New Zealand on intelligence and wanted to be sure these would not be compromised. He also mentioned that many Soviet trawlers are intelligence collectors. The Prime Minister responded that if the licensing agreement included a condition allowing boarding of the trawlers, it might discourage intelligence operations. He also spoke of the problem of communications security and made the point that there was no intention of giving the Soviets a base in New Zealand but rather just the use of repair facilities and the opportunity to take on supplies. Mr. Galvin emphasized that other types of Soviet ships are already coming to New Zealand (merchants and liners) and that New Zealand already has the capacity to deal with them and could easily handle the fishing trawler from any security standpoint.

8. The Prime Minister mentioned that US warships are warmly greeted in all Southern Pacific countries and made a pitch for more visits to Fiji, Samoa, and Tonga. The SecDef acknowledged the point and said that we certainly do not intend to ignore the South-west Pacific.

9. The Prime Minister asked SecDef if he had any comments on the Indian Ocean. SecDef responded that US/Soviet negotiations would probably resume next month² and that it is possible that US and Soviet interests may be close enough to allow a modest agreement to stabilize the present situation—that if neither want to expand their forces agreement may be easy. He also emphasized that whether or not an arrangement was reached the US is not going to lose interest in the area, given the importance of limiting Soviet expansion in the Persian Gulf area to the North. He said that in the future we might be able to negotiate a reduction of forces in the Indian Ocean but certainly not now. He asked for the Prime Minister’s views.

The Prime Minister responded that New Zealand has a relaxed view as long as a reasonable balance is maintained—that the Indian Ocean is important to New Zealand and they want to see a continuing US interest. New Zealand is content to leave the details to the US. SecDef commented that it is interesting to note that the largest naval force in the Indian Ocean on a week-by-week basis is the French but questioned how long that might continue.

The Prime Minister asked about Diego Garcia and SecDef responded that it is a modest naval base limited to communications and fueling facilities—that we certainly intend to continue our presence there but have no plans to increase our activities.

Thor Hanson
Rear Admiral, USN
Military Assistant to the Secretary of Defense

1. Source: Washington National Records Center, RG 330, OSD Files: FRC 330–80–0035, 26, New Zealand 000.1–425.1, Jan 1977. Confidential. The meeting took place at Blair House. Prepared by Hanson on November 14. Muldoon was in Washington November 8–11 for an official visit.
2. The third round of negotiations was held December 6–10 in Bern. See Foreign Relations, 1977–1980, vol. XVIII, Middle East Region; Arabian Peninsula, Document 117.