12. Memorandum of Conversation, Washington, October 1, 1974, 5 p.m.1 2
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
- Sunthorn Hongladarom, SEATO Secretary General
- William Owen, Special Assistant to the Secretary General
- Ivan Campbell, SEATO Information Officer
- Brent Scowcroft, Lieutenant General, USAF, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
- John A. Froebe, Jr.,
- Staff Member
DATE, TIME, AND PLACE: October 1, 1974; 5:00 p.m.
The White House
SUBJECT: Current Thai Political Situation; Thai Economic Situation; SEATO’s Current Status; Hopes for U.S. Agricultural Assistance; U.S. Commitment to SEATO and Thailand
General Scowcroft : I apologize for the President’s not being able to see you. Mrs. Ford’s recent hospitalization has curtailed his schedule in recent days. He asked me to express his regrets for his not being able to see you, and to tell you that he looks forward to meeting with you on another occasion.
Secretary General Sunthorn : I met the President before when I was here as my country’s ambassador. He seems not to have changed much in the interim.
General Scowcroft : When was that?
[Page 2]Secretary General Sunthorn : 1969-72.
You haven’t changed much either, General, since I last saw you a year ago.
General Scowcroft : This has been quite a year.
Current Thai Political Situation
Secretary General Sunthorn : For the U.S. as well as for Thailand. Some things seem to have changed for the better and some for the worse in Thailand. Our students are getting unruly. I agree that Thai students should have a voice in the affairs of state. But when they won their victory last October, they seemed to have been emboldened to go much further. They are now prone to demonstrate on any excuse. We hope they will become more responsible.
General Scowcroft : Students are notoriously...
Secretary General Sunthorn : American students went through such a period in the late 60’s, but have now returned to their studies. Among Thai students, comparatively few are real troublemakers. There is a possibility that they have been instigated. We have our suspicions on that score. They have engaged in activities that are quite similar to those of the extreme left. The police are watching closely. Once the police feel that the students indeed are being inspired by a third party, we will probably have to do something.
General Scowcroft : That could cause problems.
Secretary General Sunthorn : In Thailand, you need to take some firm action now and then.
General Scowcroft : I would say that is true everywhere.
Secretary General Sunthorn : Prime Minister Sanya was a fellow student of mine. He is a devout Buddhist and abhors violence. But we must put our foot down at some point. He is not a man of this type. He was unexpectedly given this job by the King. Lately, however, he has become convinced of the need for firm action.
General Scowcroft : My impression is that he has been stronger in his approach recently.
[Page 3]What are the prospects for your elections?
Secretary General Sunthorn : They should be held in about three months — the first part of February. Our National Assembly is now going through the third reading on the draft constitution, and the constitution should be promulgated on October 5. Then, within 120 days we will have elections. That would bring us to the first part of February — assuming that the students won’t bring on a crisis in the meantime.
General Scowcroft : Do you think the situation will be better after the election?
Secretary General Sunthorn : I believe it will be better. The students will not be able to contend that we have no representative government. They now claim that the Prime Minister represents only the King. But after the election, the Prime Minister will be chosen from the Lower House. The students may well find another excuse to demonstrate, but I am a little more optimistic about the prospects following the elections. I have been asked by Mr. Hummel and others in Washington whether Thailand has a clear leader coming up. I have told them “No.” In Thailand, the personality of the man counts for much. If you have a popular man, vigorous in his approach, he will go a long way. The former Thai Ambassador to the U.S., Seni Tranot, who was here in Washington during the Second World War, is such a leader, but he is now about 70 and he is getting old. He is the leader of one of our parties. If he were to be Prime Minister, his duties might prove too much for him in view of his age. The leaders of the other parties are not exactly outstanding. This state of affairs perhaps is the result of long military rule.
General Scowcroft : There has been no opportunity for civilian leadership to develop.
Secretary General Sunthorn : I agree. But we must make a start sometime.
General Scowcroft : But leaders arise to meet situations.
Secretary General Sunthorn : We have a few professors who know something of politics, but they don’t have any following to speak of.
We are hoping that, if the constitution is adopted in its present form, we would have an Upper House with members appointed by the King. He [Page 4] will appoint well-qualified men. Some members of the Cabinet can come from the Upper House — and we would thus get some experienced people in our Cabinet.
General Scowcroft : I must read your new constitution.
Secretary General Sunthorn : As to the Cabinet, half of the Cabinet can be outsiders — which could include men from either the Senate or even outside Parliament. If the Prime Minister can’t find capable men in Parliament, he can draw on qualified persons from outside Parliament.
General Scowcroft : Then it will not be a pure parliamentary system. Will the Prime Minister be in a strong position, or can he be ousted by a no-confidence vote?
Secretary General Sunthorn : He can be voted out in a no-confidence vote. There are a few encouraging signs. The Thai people are now more politically conscious. We hope there will be a large voter turn-out for this election. The Ministry of Interior, which is responsible for conducting election, has already been working to turn out a large vote. I see both encouraging and pessimistic signs for the future.
General Scowcroft : This is a time of transition. It is true in the U.S. as well.
Thai Economic Situation
Secretary General Sunthorn : There are economic problems. As I pointed out to Deputy Secretary Ingersoll, rice is particularly important to Thailand. There have been floods in the Philippines and even some in Thailand. Still, the Thai crop is fairly good this year. But the demand in Southeast Asia is much higher. The price in Malaysia has gone up four times. We can’t control the smuggling problem. We have asked here in Washington for help in increasing rice production in Thailand as quickly as possible.
General Scowcroft : The world is in very good shape, particularly as to food and oil.
Secretary General Sunthorn : Thailand must import almost all its consumables.
General Scowcroft : Are you prospecting for oil?
[Page 5]Secretary General Sunthorn : Yes. In particular, there are two American firms which claim to have found some in our area.
General Scowcroft : I hope you will be successful. What about SEATO?
SEATO’s Current Status
Secretary General Sunthorn : We hope the U.S. will continue its support for SEATO. You are pursuing detente. But we see a continuing threat of subversion, without any reduction in sight on this problem. We hope SEATO will continue.
General Scowcroft : But with the emphasis now of subversion. Is the organization doing well?
Secretary General Sunthorn : Within the limits of its budget. Pakistan has withdrawn from SEATO, and France has ended its budgetary support. This has resulted in a 20 percent reduction in our budget.
General Scowcroft : We will continue to do as much as possible, but as you are aware we have considerable problems with Congress. I am not sure how much we are going to be able to do.
Secretary General Sunthorn : But the U.S. contribution to SEATO is small. SEATO has a budget of only 1.5 million, of which the U.S. contributes 20 percent — or about $400,000.
General Scowcroft : I was talking rather about bilateral AID support.
Hopes for U.S. Agricultural Assistance
Secretary General Sunthorn : If the U.S. could — through its AID mission in Bangkok or through other channels — increase its AID assistance to agricultural production in Thailand and the Philippines, this would be very helpful.
General Scowcroft : This would seem to carry a big payoff.
Secretary General Sunthorn : The miracle rice developed in the Philippines didn’t pan out.
[Page 6]General Scowcroft : I understand it required much fertilizer.
Secretary General Sunthorn : The new strains of rice are very prone to insect damage. Their yield is high, but they are vulnerable to insects. In Thailand, we have tried to cross-breed to develop a strain that will be insect resistant. It seems to be working.
We are also trying to introduce family planning, but this effort will produce a significant impact only over the much longer term.
General Scowcroft : I understand that Thailand has a high birth rate.
Secretary General Sunthorn : Yes, it has one of the highest in the world. But I don’t want to belabor all these points.
U.S. Commitment to SEATO and Thailand
General Scowcroft : I can assure you that the U.S. will remain interested both in Thailand and in SEATO. We want you to continue to tell us what we can do in Thailand, particularly during the transition to the new government. We are interested in maintaining very close cooperation with Thailand.
Secretary General Sunthorn : The U.S. has always been very friendly to Thailand. I want to assure you that the remarks of extremist students in Thailand do not represent the views of more knowledgeable Thais.
General Scowcroft : We recognize this and we do not misinterpret the actions of your students.
(At this point, after a final exchange of courtesies, Secretary General Sunthorn took his leave of General Scowcroft.)