366. Conversation Between the President’s Assistant for National Security Affairs (Kissinger) and the Deputy Secretary of Defense (Rush)1
Kissinger: Hello?
Rush: Hello, Henry.
Kissinger: Ken, how are you?
Rush: Fine, thank you. [How did]things go this morning?2
Kissinger: Well, your leader [Laird] fought with, you know what his position is.
Rush: Yes, I do.
Kissinger: And he defend—and he, that’s the position he took.
Rush: Hmmm.
Kissinger: The President is in the process of making up his mind.
Rush: Well, I hope he makes it up the way you and I think.
Kissinger: Right. Ken, what I called you about is to see whether we could get that German vote delayed a week.
Rush: The, which one?
Kissinger: The German vote which is now set for Wednesday [May 10].
Rush: Oh, oh, oh, right.
Kissinger: Do you think we can do something without getting caught at it?
Rush: I doubt that we can. In Germany today, Henry, both parties are—well you might say both groups because each one has two so-called parties—are in disarray.
[Page 1030]Kissinger: Yeah.
Rush: Brandt is fighting for his life.
Kissinger: Right.
Rush: Brandt and Wehner are very anxious to bring this thing to a vote this week.
Kissinger: Yeah.
Rush: And to vote—really to start tomorrow and have it voted on the following day.
Kissinger: Well, you see, they want a message from the President, but I don’t want to waste a presidential message on these guys.3
Rush: But they—yes they want the President. Well, they both want a message from the President. Barzel wants a message from the President saying that he’s in favor of a bipartisan foreign policy. And Brandt wants some help, of course, for his Moscow agreement.
Kissinger: Yeah.
Rush: So that anything—
Kissinger: You see I would be glad4 to recommend a message to the President if in return the Soviets lay off, let us go through with what we are thinking of.
Rush: Yes, yes.
Kissinger: But for that we need a week.
Rush: Yes. Well, without, without bringing Brandt into it directly,5 it would be impossible for us to intervene, I think, and not be very, very seriously misunderstood.
Kissinger: Yeah.
Rush: And probably permanently damage for quite some time. But what you have now, Henry, is a fight for control of the government and for domination of the party.
Kissinger: Look, I’ve got to see the President. I’ll call you in about half an hour, if you can give some more thought to it.
Rush: I will, Henry. Thanks very much.
[Page 1031]Kissinger: Right.
Rush: Good.6
- Source: National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, White House Tapes, Recording of Conversation Between Kissinger and Rush, May 8, 1972, Time Unknown, White House Telephone, Conversation 024–4. The editor transcribed the portion of the conversation printed here specifically for this volume. The exact time of the conversation is unknown. Kissinger placed the call during a meeting with Nixon and Haldeman from 1:36 to 2:35 p.m. in the Executive Office Building. (Record of Schedule; Library of Congress, Manuscript Division, Kissinger Papers, Box 438, Miscellany, 1968–76) During the telephone call, Nixon and Haldeman continued their own discussion; a tape is in the National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, White House Tapes, Conversation Between Nixon, Haldeman, and Kissinger, May 8, 1972, 1:15–2:30 p.m., Executive Office Building, Conversation 336–8. Two instances when Nixon can be clearly heard on the telephone recording, apparently commenting on that conversation, are noted in footnotes 4 and 5 below.↩
- Nixon convened a meeting of the National Security Council from 9:10 a.m. to 12:07 p.m. to discuss a military response to the North Vietnamese invasion, including the mining and blockading of the harbor at Haiphong. (President’s Daily Diary; National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, White House Central Files)↩
- Kissinger received a telephone call from Bahr at 1:15 p.m.; the two men talked in German for about 6 minutes. (Record of Schedule; Library of Congress, Manuscript Division, Kissinger Papers, Box 438, Miscellany, 1968–76) No record of the discussion has been found. Kissinger reported, when he met Nixon at 1:36 p.m., that Bahr “wants a message from you on the treaties.” According to this account, Kissinger promised to submit the request to the President and suggested that Bahr call again the next day. (National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, White House Tapes, Recording of Conversation Between Nixon, Haldeman and Kissinger, May 8, 1972, 1:15–2:30 p.m., Executive Office Building, Conversation 336–8)↩
- At this point, Nixon commented in the background: “No, no.”↩
- At this point, Nixon commented in the background: “I personally wouldn’t.”↩
- Although no record has been found that Kissinger called Rush back that afternoon, the two men met from 5:23 to 5:34 p.m. after both attended a meeting of the Washington Special Actions Group. (Record of Schedule; Library of Congress, Manuscript Division, Kissinger Papers, Box 438, Miscellany, 1968–76) During his meeting with Rush, Kissinger called Nixon at 5:30 p.m. After reviewing the President’s televised address on Vietnam that evening, the two men discussed linkage between the Eastern treaties and the Moscow summit: “P: Do you think you can do anything about the Germans? K: Well, I’m getting Rush to call Bahr as soon as your speech is finished and say they cannot use the argument that you need this for your trip to Moscow. P: Who—the Germans? K: Brandt is using the argument that the reason they must ratify it is because you need it for your trip to Moscow. P: Umhumm. What is your view as to what that does then? K: That may delay it. P: Umhumm. Well, that’ll put a little pressure on the Russians wouldn’t it? K: That’s right. P: Umhumm. Good, good.” (Ibid., Box 372, Telephone Conversations)↩