319. Transcript of Telephone Conversation Between Secretary of State Rogers and the President’s Assistant for National Security Affairs (Kissinger)1
R: How is the weather?
K: Glorious.
R: Good. Henry, I went over with Rush this morning the tentative agreement.2 We are going to talk again later this afternoon.3 I think we are sort of stuck with it, but it does have parts that trouble the hell out of me. Have you got it in front of you?
[Page 900]K: Yes.
R: On General Provisions, the first, as you notice of the preamble they have said “taking into account the existing situation …” That expression was not to be used it said, but I think that is managable. But I think point #4 is the part that is really troublesome. Keep in mind that the world “Berlin” was never used. I can see why it was not possible to use that, but in view of the fact that it was not used, this paragraph is very troublesome. [reads]4 “… shall not be changed unilaterally.” This is the one the Russians insisted upon. It will be taken by them to mean that nothing in West Berlin can be changed by the three without their consent. We don’t have any say in what happens in East Berlin.
K: Can’t we claim that it means East Berlin too.
R: Of course we can claim it….
K: Do you have any suggestions?
R: The trouble is I don’t know what it does mean. He said it means that the agreement shall not be changed unilaterally—that’s redundant. An Agreement between four parties means that one party can’t change it. I think this will be construed that we can’t change anything in West Berlin without Russian agreement. If this is seized upon by the McCloys, the Achesons, and Norstads,5 it could cause trouble. We know what they say it means; we’re having difficulty knowing what we say it means.
K: It says “shall not be changed”—it doesn’t say we cannot do anything.
R: I just wanted to alert you to the problem.
K: I think some explanation of how we understand it might be in order.
R: Yes. It’s going to be pretty feeble if we say that nothing can be changed in East Berlin without the consent of the U.S.
K: Perhaps we should say it is a restrictive thing, applying to this treaty.
R: The only way this agreement can be changed is by unanimous consent.
K: Yes, I think that’s right.
[Page 901]R: Another thing … I talked to Bob Haldeman.6 I think we ought to give some thought to briefing some of the fellows like McCloy. He was [omission in the source text] we were going to sell Berlin down the river. We ought to keep them quiet if we can.
K: I agree—how can we do that?
R: I thought I could get Rush, Hillenbrand, or Sutterlin … do you know him?
K: Excellent, first-rate. He was in my seminar.
R: Oh really?
K: But don’t hold that against him.
R: He was concerned, but we have got to be enthusiastic now.
K: I agree. I think it will be helpful for your people to do some briefing.
R: I’ll set that up.7 Okay, anything else?
K: No. [Omitted here is a brief discussion of matters unrelated to Germany.]
- Source: Library of Congress, Manuscript Division, Kissinger Papers, Box 369, Telephone Conversations, Chronological File. No classification marking. According to his Appointment Book, Rogers, in Washington, first called at 1:25 p.m., EDT, before reaching Kissinger at 2:21 p.m., EDT, in San Clemente. (Personal Papers of William P. Rogers)↩
- See Document 317.↩
- See footnote 3, Document 318.↩
- Brackets in the source text.↩
- General Lauris Norstad, former Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers in Europe.↩
- Rogers called Haldeman at 1:15 p.m., EDT. (Appointment Book; Personal Papers of William P. Rogers) According to Haldeman’s handwritten notes of the conversation, Rogers said that it was “good to have Rush come out to see P[resident]. Q[uestion] would be that there are some disadvantages esp[ecially] with conservatives. Rogers wants to get together w/Clay, McCloy etc. to keep them in line—avoid criticism.” (Haldeman Notes; National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, White House Special Files, Staff Member and Office Files, H. R. Haldeman) See also the entry for August 25 in Haldeman, The Haldeman Diaries: Multimedia Edition. ↩
- Rogers called McCloy and Clay that evening; he reported by telephone to Haldeman on September 1 at 1:15 p.m. (Appointment Book; Personal Papers of William P. Rogers) According to Haldeman’s handwritten notes of the latter conversation, Rogers said that the Department had briefed “people on Berlin, esp. key cong[ress]men—McCloy, Murphy, Acheson, Rusk, etc. Clay opposed but won’t say anything.” (Haldeman Notes; National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, White House Special Files, Staff Member and Office Files, H. R. Haldeman)↩