Foreign Relations of the United States, 1969–1976, Volume XXV, Arab-Israeli Crisis and War, 1973

350. Memorandum of Conversation¹

Washington, November 21, 1973.

SUBJECT

• Meeting Between the Secretary and Syrian UN Permanent Representative Kaylani

PARTICIPANTS

• Haytham Kaylani, Syrian Permanent Representative to the UN
• Diya’allah al-Bettal, Director, UN Department, Syrian Ministry of Foreign Affairs
• Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State
• Joseph J. Sisco, Assistant Secretary, NEA
• David A. Korn, Country Director, NEA/ARN
• Camille Nowfel, Interpreter
• Secretary Kissinger

I am grateful to you for taking the time to come down here to exchange ideas. I have had an opportunity to talk to leaders of many Arab countries but have not had the pleasure of having discussions with Syrians, other than your Vice Foreign Minister whom I saw a few weeks ago.² So I want to tell you what our general thinking is as to how discussions might proceed and first to make clear the general proposition that we are fully prepared to have an exchange of views with Syria as well as with other Arab countries. The only reason we did not propose a visit to Damascus during my last trip was that we thought it might cause embarrassment for you. I want to tell you that I am tentatively thinking now of visiting some Arab capitals again in December. I will be in Europe from about December 9 to 11 and thought I might be in the Middle East from about December 13 to 16. I would be pleased to come to Damascus if your President were able to receive me and so wished.

All of your friends have given us advice on how to deal with the Syrians. The only ones who have not advised us on this subject are the Syrians themselves. One of your friends has said that the Syrians are impossible on the first meeting but better during the second. Maybe we had better start with the second. I couldn’t testify to the truth of that, however, because your Vice Foreign Minister was very reasonable, but he did not tell me anything.

I assume you have been informed by your Egyptian friends regarding our conversations. Our thinking—and the Egyptians’—was that we should begin a peace conference about the middle of December. We said December 8 or 9, but now it appears that December 18 would be actually the most convenient. In the first phase, the conference would include Syria, Jordan, Israel, Egypt, the USSR, the US and maybe the UN Secretary General. We also recognize that there are others like the Palestinians and the Lebanese who would have an interest but in the first phase it would concentrate on military issues and there would be no need for Lebanon and the Palestinians to participate at the beginning.

We think US–Soviet auspices would be the best because if other permanent members attend it is possible the Israelis might not attend. In addition, this procedure would give balance between the two points of view. Also, management of the conference would become impossible if too many are involved.

Those are our general views. Did I leave anything out?

Mr. Sisco

Did you mention the site?

Secretary Kissinger

Geneva.

Mr. Sisco

And the level of participation?

Secretary Kissinger

In the first two days it would be at the Foreign Minister level. After that we would appoint someone of Ambassadorial rank as Permanent Representative.

Ambassador Kaylani

I would like to thank you for your kind and generous reception. Thank you for your kind initiative which makes an exchange of views at the level of the Secretary of State. I shall convey to my government your desire to visit Damascus and to meet with President Asad.

Secretary Kissinger

My security people forbid it, I might evoke too much popular feeling. Seriously, I would be delighted to do it.

Ambassador Kaylani

You have had no previous dealings with Syria?

Secretary Kissinger

No.

Ambassador Kaylani

Your knowledge may be based on what you have been told or read.

Secretary Kissinger

I have never been in an Arab country before my last trip, and I have the warmest feelings from that experience. By the way, your friends in the Arab world spoke of you with great affection.

Ambassador Kaylani

I believe you will bring back the very best remembrances from any visit you might have with Syrian leaders. With your permission I would like to ask a number of questions about what you said regarding the peace conference. You said that in the first phase of the conference military questions will be taken up. What is meant?

Secretary Kissinger

What I have in mind, subject to the views of all the other participants, is the disengagement of military forces from contact and the beginning of the withdrawal process.

Ambassador Kaylani

Do I understand this implies taking up the question of Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories to the lines of June 4, 1967?

Secretary Kissinger

I think we would take up the first stage of that process.

Ambassador Kaylani

As far as the participation of the Palestinians in the conference is concerned—I ask inasmuch as you play the key role in organizing it—how can the Palestinians be excluded?

Secretary Kissinger

Since they have no direct military role, they need not take part in the first stage. That does not imply a permanent intention to exclude them.

Ambassador Kaylani

You did mention a number of countries you would like to have take part. Are you in favor of having the permanent members of the Security Council participate?

Secretary Kissinger

Only the Soviet Union and the United States. Otherwise I think the permanent members would have as much contention among themselves as between the Arabs and Israel. If you have all the permanent members you have a guarantee for a stalemate and then the solution will have to take place outside the conference.

Ambassador Kaylani

Also I understand that the participation of any state other than the ones you mention is undesirable.

Secretary Kissinger

What I am telling you is what we have agreed with the Egyptians. This reflects also the views of President Sadat. Of course they must speak for themselves but this is my impression. As you know I said publicly today in my press conference that the United States is determined to play a major role and you know as well as I do that the U.S. is the only country that can produce a settlement.³ We will not do it under pressure. We will do it because we think it is necessary for the well being of the Middle East and of the world.

A lot of countries that are volunteering advice are in no position to be helpful.

Ambassador Kaylani

One last question. It may be rather redundant but I hope you will accept it with your characteristic generosity.

Secretary Kissinger

Mr. Sisco doesn’t agree (laughter).

Ambassador Kaylani

Can you assure us that the Palestinians will participate in the conference after the first stage?

Secretary Kissinger

I think some solution will be found to that problem. But this is one of the subjects we should discuss, concerning the appropriate level and how it would be done. It is not a question that we are in principle opposed to, but it is a delicate issue.

Ambassador Kaylani

Do you have any idea how long such a conference will last?

Secretary Kissinger

That is a good question. If it opens on December 18—I think your government will find in its dealings with us that I am candid—I don’t think there will be any real progress until after the Israeli elections of December 31. The first phase could take place quite quickly; after that we will have to look at things. The big problem is to get momentum going. After all, Israel has never withdrawn from anything.

Ambassador Kaylani

Sir, I want to thank you for your revealing answers. You have been very generous. If there is anything else you have to add I would be glad to listen. Otherwise, I would like to tell you that I leave this discussion with an excellent and a very warm impression.

Secretary Kissinger

You can communicate to your government that we will make a serious effort. All the governments involved need to face up to the problem and to give it a try.⁴

1. Source: National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, NSC Files, Kissinger Office Files, Box 129, Country Files, Middle East, Middle East—1971–72–73–74. Secret; Nodis. Drafted by Korn.
2. See Document 310.
3. Kissinger’s November 21 news conference was devoted almost entirely to the Middle East. Excerpts were printed in The New York Times, November 22, 1973.
4. Kissinger also met with Eban on November 21 to discuss plans for a peace conference. According to a memorandum of conversation prepared by Stackhouse, Kissinger stated that while he believed the conference would open on either December 17 or 18, he had informed the Egyptians that no progress could be made until after the Israeli elections on December 31. “Even if I had not said this,” Kissinger told Eban, “it is not reasonable to expect progress immediately in an international conference on such a long-standing problem . . . We have made clear to the Arabs that we want them to lift the oil embargo before the peace conference, otherwise we could not be helpful.” Eban replied that although Israel would participate in a multilateral conference, “We want as much bilateralism as possible in the peace conference. We want to discuss particular problems with those countries directly involved. For example, we want to discuss freedom of navigation in the [Suez] Canal with Egypt, not with Syria.” (National Archives, RG 59, Central Files 1970–73, POL 7 ISR)